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  • #1794551
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    freddy22552
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    Joined: 02 Mar 2016
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 45

    Hi,

    I’m a complete dummy when it comes to electrics so forgive me if I’m missing the obvious.

    My house is in a very rural area and I understand the reasons for being on 3 phase supply.

    My question is if I have 9kva supply coming into the house on 3 phase do I have 9kva on each phase or only 3kva?

    I’m about to pull the trigger on a dual fuel range cooker and thought I’d better check first.

     

    Many thanks

    Fred

     


    #1794554
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    I’m afraid 9 kVA is the sum of what you get per phase: 3 * 3 kVA. See this table. With only 15 amps per phase it is not too difficult to overload not only one phase but also your disjoncteur de branchement  (example 15 kVA). As soon as there is an overload it gets trigger happy and switches everything off.


    RA

    #1794557
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    freddy22552
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    Joined: 02 Mar 2016
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 45

    Hi Robert and thanks for your prompt response.

    The cooker I’m looking at has a single electric oven which needs 4kw and a gas hob.

    Does that power requirement sound feasible with my supply?


    #1794559
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    freddy22552
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    Joined: 02 Mar 2016
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 45

    Sorry Robert the oven needs 3.2kw


    #1794565
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    4 kw and 230 volt —> max  17.39 amps.  Although the French main switch takes an overload of about 30 % without too much complaining this would suppose that nothing else draws power from the phase you had in mind to feed  your oven. Not very practical, even if you were to instruct everybody in the house to not switch on lights, kettle etc.  when you’re preparing something special in the oven.

    In rural France there are a lot of these “underpowered” three-phase connections. Two solutions:

    1/ Ask the ERDF (now: ENEDIS) for a change from triphasé to monophasé. This will give you much more headroom: 45 amps. Sometimes the ERDF wants to carry out a little technical feasibility study: is the local grid capable of delivering single-phase over the existing wiring within the legal voltage limits.

    2/ Go for a higher three-phase “puissance souscrite” : 12 or 15 kVA. Giving you 20 or 25 amps per phase at a higher price per month.

    3/ The devil is in the detail: for both these scenarios there is the possibility that you have to upgrade the wiring from pole to your house. Existing wiring might be too thin.


    RA

    #1794570
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    To continue: 3.2 kW and 230 volt —-> 13.9 amps. Yes you can, but…….Even if you “balance” the phases – trying to distribute power hungry appliances over the three phases to prevent the 15 amp per phase roadblock – it still is not an ideal situation.

    Step by step approach: give it a try to see if with some precautions – no, not the hair dryer right now dear – you can live with your existing three-phase abonnement. Too many black outs: go to solution # 1 or # 2.


    RA

    #1794629
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    freddy22552
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    Joined: 02 Mar 2016
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 45

    Thanks Robert for your invaluable information and advice. I think I’ll get the oven and see how it goes.

    We’ve got one of these Linksys and I hear they give no margin for error if you exceed your allowance although I’m told you can increase your supply without an engineer coming out.

    Thanks again

    Fred


    #1794655
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    The Linky smartmeter can be a problem. The old disc meters or Sagem digital meters were one trick ponies: only counting the flow of electrons . Linky is clever and thanks to its digital chips inside is capable of shutting down your supply with milli amp precision. And in doing so earning extra money for its masters  in the E(R)DF chateau. It’s positioned up front, you still will have a DB (disjoncteur de branchement). Consumer organisations were afraid that about 6 % of the cher clients would be forced to go for the next higher puissance souscrite, the E(R)DF of course argued that they were over pessimistic, the figure would probably be somewhere around only 2 %. Don’t get me started on this issue.

     


    RA

    #1794674
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    fittersmate
    Participant
    Joined: 08 Jun 2009
    Location: Brittany France dept 56
    Total posts: 1624

    We have just had Linky meters fitted – one monophase for the house and one triphase for our barn supply which was a commercial workshop before us.

    What Enedis do when they fit the Linkys is to wind the current overload setting on the disconjoncteur de branchement up to the maximum possible so the current overload function is by the Linky.

    I was a bit concerned that starting some of our single phase workshop machinery might trip the Linky so I tested that with the motors on the log splitter and bandsaw when Mr Linky was still there, but no problem.

    The max current reading on the old digital meter for the house was 36 amp and the DB was set to 30 amp so we will probably increase our house puissance from 6kva to 9kva as we were, pre Linky, close to and sometimes over the limit in winter if the wrong combination of appliances was in use at any one time.

    Please note if you have had a Linky fitted you can have your puissance increased without paying them €38 to do it for the first year after having the Linky fitted.

     


    #1794805
    badger
    badger
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    Joined: 04 Dec 2008
    Location: Near Vire (14)
    Total posts: 1408

    The max current reading on the old digital meter for the house was 36 amp

    If you aren’t the first user of a digital meter (i.e. it was there when you moved into the property) then the maximum figure shown might not apply to you – it’s the maximum ever drawn on that particular meter. If I were you I’d see how you go with your first winter with a Linky before you up the “abonnement”.


    Jonathan Badger - St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    #1794815
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    fittersmate
    Participant
    Joined: 08 Jun 2009
    Location: Brittany France dept 56
    Total posts: 1624

    The max current reading on the old digital meter for the house was 36 amp

    If you aren’t the first user of a digital meter (i.e. it was there when you moved into the property) then the maximum figure shown might not apply to you – it’s the maximum ever drawn on that particular meter. If I were you I’d see how you go with your first winter with a Linky before you up the “abonnement”.

    <hr />

    Jonathan Badger – St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    Yup it’s ours and ours alone – after we moved in 8 years ago we found that it wasn’t working, so it was replaced around about December 2009 – we suspected that the previous devious occupants had somehow disabled the thing.

    As the meter is on a outside wall facing the SW wind and rain we just can’t be arsed to bogger about with going out to reset it if it trips in winter.

    And we are seriously thinking about dumping Creuse/Pleine because I won’t leave washing machines and dishwashers on overnight.


    #1794833
    badger
    badger
    Participant
    Joined: 04 Dec 2008
    Location: Near Vire (14)
    Total posts: 1408

    ….it’s ours and ours alone….

    well, that answers that. I’m in a similar position (34A max, only ever our meter, overload tripped once in 14 years). However, I have high hopes to stay that low as I now have a délesteur to watch over the electric heating.

    And we are seriously thinking about dumping Creuse/Pleine because I won’t leave washing machines and dishwashers on overnight.

    Is the noise an issue overnight? Some peole have 2 or 3 hours cheap rate at lunchtime, if it’s available in their area, but you can’t actually choose it. HP/HC isn’t as good  a deal as it was, sadly.


    Jonathan Badger - St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    #1794839
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    Chanceux
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    Joined: 17 Mar 2010
    Location: Picardie
    Total posts: 13130

    HP/HC isn’t as good  a deal as it was, sadly.

    Thats an understatement!

    Actually no, it is a good deal for EDF when they scam people into believing they will benefit from it and they end up paying a higher abonnement and 1ct per unit more for their year round consumption apart from heating load for one third of the day for a couple of months a year.

    I have storage heaters but have stopped using the bedroom one (small room often too hot) and rely more and more on the clime, I now have only a very minor benefit from HP/HC.


    #1795028
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    fittersmate
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    Joined: 08 Jun 2009
    Location: Brittany France dept 56
    Total posts: 1624

    “Is the noise an issue overnight? Some people have 2 or 3 hours cheap rate at lunchtime, if it’s available in their area, but you can’t actually choose it. HP/HC isn’t as good  a deal as it was, sadly”

    No not the noise – I just don’t like leaving the washing machine /dishwasher live when we are not about.

    EDF/Enedis dumped our afternoon creuse period so we only have the 21.30 to 5.30 period, complicated calulations reveal that the miniscule financial advantage of creuse is outweighed by the convenience of using said appliances at any time during the day.


    #1795031
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    lindal1000
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    Joined: 09 Jun 2011
    Location: france
    Total posts: 4844

    “Is the noise an issue overnight? Some people have 2 or 3 hours cheap rate at lunchtime, if it’s available in their area, but you can’t actually choose it. HP/HC isn’t as good a deal as it was, sadly” No not the noise – I just don’t like leaving the washing machine /dishwasher live when we are not about. EDF/Enedis dumped our afternoon creuse period so we only have the 21.30 to 5.30 period, complicated calulations reveal that the miniscule financial advantage of creuse is outweighed by the convenience of using said appliances at any time during the day.

    <hr />

    I don’t mean to sound dumb but aren’t appliances always ‘live’ in France, unless you actually unplug them? Does actually running them make them any more dangerous?

    I don’t like to leave the tumble drier on overnight as I don’t like leaving dry washing in the drum, but the dishwasher and washing machine we always do during the cheaper period. That said OH has meticulously worked out the cost effectiveness of the creuse/plein and the savings are very marginal.


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