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  • #1599724
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    nric
    Participant
    Joined: 14 Jun 2012
    Location: 12
    Total posts: 76

    I am trying to wire the hall lights so that they can be turned on/off at top, middle floor and bottom. In the UK 2 way switches have the correct connections by running 3 core plus earth between them. I’ve got no problem with the cable circuits, it’s just that I cant find suitable switches in any brico stores. They only have 3 terminals on the back.

    Anybody got ideas – at worst I’ll have to bring UK ones out but then risk not getting them certified [it’s a new installation].


    nric

    #1599726
    chris-le-bricoleur
    chris-le-bricoleur
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    Joined: 03 Dec 2010
    Location: NL and 52
    Total posts: 1381

    nric,
    in France you don’t find the UK type of switches since they use télérupteurs, touchbutton-operated relays (not sure whether touchbutton is the proper UK equivalent for bouton pressoir).
    Wiring is simple, see this scheme.
    I would prefer the 4-wire solution. I do hope that this scheme speaks for itself, and you can easily see that you can add as many touchbuttons as you like.
    The components are called:
    télérupteur
    bouton poussoir

    You’ll find them in any brico shed.


    Christian - bricoleur par passion, pas par necessité http://www.klussen-in-frankrijk.eu/

    #1599737
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    mikej
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    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    If you do go the telerupeurs, get the silent electronic type, I find the noise the mechanical relay makes very intrusive when you switch the lights on and off, however you can go the three wire route you are used to with a Va-et-vent at either end of the circuit and a Permutateur (intermediate) between, all shown on page 370 of Thierry Gallauziaux and David Fedullo’s book L’installation electrique, in French I’m afraid, but the pics are self explanatory, thanks due to Robert Arthur for recommending this to us all.

    Mike

    In the illustrations they show how to use a double switch as an intermediate I will try to scan this in and post here, but I am just on my way out fishing for the day and will not be back till late, so it may be tomorrow before I can post it.


    WFIPFLL

    • This reply was modified 25 Feb 2015 09:55 by  mikej.
    #1599745
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    Chris, language and naming conventions. Not to explain it to you, but to those less familiar with French electrics. The French will probably be more familiar with the name: bouton poussoir as you already mentioned, not bouton pressoir. It is a touch button, but not a “maintained button”, toggle or on/off. It is only a momentary action for this push down switch, generating a short pulse to get the bistable relay inside your télérupteur moving from one position to the other. On/off from a distance. These relays can be inside your consumer unit, or somewhere in a back box, block type.


    RA

    #1599747
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    Chanceux
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    Joined: 17 Mar 2010
    Location: Picardie
    Total posts: 13130

    He wasnt sure :lol: of the English term, I use “momentary pushbutton” which is a rather more technically correct term, many others just use pushbutton.

    A pushsbotton could be a push on, push off action (latching) so I prefer to be correct and say “momentary pushbutton” and to be absolutely correct one should say “momentary pushbutton switch” and if you are a military person then “momentary pushbutton switch, lighting for the use of” :lol:


    #1599757
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    What I forgot to say. The traditional wiring is still allowed, but the extra in-between switch (a permutateur) is a species threatened with extinction to quote the website of Entraidelec. King of the hill: the télérupteur and below him the simple va et vient.


    RA

    #1599771
    le-dolly
    le-dolly
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    Joined: 16 Nov 2009
    Location: La Souterraine-23 Depuis sept 2005
    Total posts: 1230

    If the OP intends to use a permutateur, consider that they will usually require a deeper back box for ease of wiring, because the permutateur is a much bigger animal than a normal switch. 50mm as opposed to the normal 40mm that is more standard for light switches.


    Le-Dolly ( . )( . ) http://www.pink-electrique.fr

    • This reply was modified 25 Feb 2015 11:46 by  le-dolly.
    #1599829
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    mikej
    Participant
    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    Of course the scanner plays up when you want it, but took a photo instead.

    Hope this helps.

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    #1599961
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    grumpyaudeman
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    Joined: 09 Nov 2014
    Location: Correze 8 years Pays basque 10 years Aude what a dump 3 years of to the Bearne next year
    Total posts: 275

    Hi
    I found the pieces made by Legrand in Leroy Merlin but Spain a few years back no chance in France


    #1599962
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    mikej
    Participant
    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    I bought two permutateur’s in Leroy Merlin in PERIGUEUX (Chancelade) three months ago, once I knew what to ask for it was easy.

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    • This reply was modified 25 Feb 2015 22:24 by  mikej.
    #1599977
    Hal
    Hal
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    Joined: 06 Jan 2011
    Location: Limoux, 11300 Aude.
    Total posts: 3793

    it’s just that I cant find suitable switches in any brico stores. They only have 3 terminals on the back.

    Much the same as it is unlikely to find intermediate switches in a UK DIY place, the same is true here. You will though find them in any electrical wholesaler in your nearest ZI such as Rexel. As already said, ask for permatateur, but I know two places near me where they recognise them as intermediates as well.
    Leboncoin generally has quite a few also. Cheaper.

    #1599994
    sheldonrobbo
    sheldonrobbo
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    Joined: 18 Dec 2008
    Location: La Souterraine, Creuse, Limousin
    Total posts: 1163
    #1600087
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    zombywoof
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    Joined: 22 Mar 2009
    Location: The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen.
    Total posts: 1406

    Maybe I’m being thick here, but I don’t get the OP’s problem. The ‘Va et vient’ switches have threee terminals as shown in Mike’s picture on the left, so what’s the difficulty. Why the need for unnecessary complications. I’ve never had any difficulty finding ‘va et vient’ switches in any of the brico’s. In what way do they differ from the connections on UK switches ?
    Apologies if I’m missing something. Perhaps I’ve been doing things wrong.


    "In the room where the giant fire-puffer works, and the torture never stops"

    #1600118
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    Zombywoof, the OP wants 3 switches and doesn’t want to complicate things even further demanding 5 switches. That’s where the French télérupteur would be much easier. Rephrasing: where to find an intermediate switch (permutateur) if allowed in France.


    RA

    #1600184
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    basileus
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    Joined: 17 Apr 2012
    Location: Aveyron
    Total posts: 407

    You cannot create three way switching with three two way switches. Hence the need for an intermediate switch or the suggested other solution using a relay.


French Electrical & Other Building Issues
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