CMUC , revenue and second house
29th September 2016 at 22:40 #1746594
popey1ParticipantJoined: 14 Jan 2009Location: LimousinTotal posts: 14
Thanks for your reply Tricia, the …?? was in reply to DB’s question about ignoring S1.
Do you happen to know about the question of revenue or exceptional payment?
Regards29th September 2016 at 22:51 #1746596
noisetteParticipantJoined: 23 Jul 2005Location: Lot-et-Garonne (47)Total posts: 1157
Sorry, I still don’t understand. If you have an S1 that entitles you to a CV without the need to apply for CMU-C. What is the advantage of ignoring the S1<hr>
Dominic, You’re confusing CMU-C with CMU-B. The former is available to anyone on low income and provides 100% cover. It’s available to any French resident, including ex-pats covered by S1s
Be alert!!!!! Your country needs lerts29th September 2016 at 23:43 #1746602
DominicBestParticipantJoined: 14 Aug 2015Location: Poitou CharentesTotal posts: 2500
Right, I see. CMU-C is to provide 100% cover for people on low incomes even if they’re getting their basic cover through an S1. I wasn’t actually confusing it with CMU-B as that, before it was replaced by PUMA, was accessed by contributions. It had never occurred to me that people getting cover through an S1 were also eligible to apply for CMU-C.
Given that it is for the poorest of the poor it seems strange that anyone with enough savings to buy and do up a second property for profit would be eligible. You learn something every day!29th September 2016 at 23:45 #1746603
DominicBestParticipantJoined: 14 Aug 2015Location: Poitou CharentesTotal posts: 2500
CMU-C is what is otherwise known as a ‘topup’ ie mutuelle or complementaire.
The S1 only covers the same proportion of the cost as French people get ie usually 60-70%.<hr>
Surely it is for complete cover, it is certainly not just a funded ‘top up’.30th September 2016 at 09:13 #1746620
CloverParticipantJoined: 31 Jul 2003Location: N/ATotal posts: 8226
With the CMU-C I have 100% cover on almost everything medical apart from expensive things like dentures or contact lenses whereby some is covered but everything else is, part is funded by the RSI and the other by the insurance company you have to choose from a list given for the mutuelle part of 30%. All this has to be renewed each year with lots of paperwork, bank attestations and details of everything financial although savings have never been asked about but obviously they can, at any time get access to your bank accounts to check you out just like the CAF for the RSA payments and if you have lied, the penalties are very very severe with possible prison sentences. As regards an S1, I have no idea being a good ten years from pension age and I would have thought if you were really on a low income, you might be able to apply, you can only submit your papers to find out. You also have to declare any foreign income such as rental properties in the UK and in France too and the money you receive but all this is verified by your avis d’imposition you supply anyway. The second house income is where you may come unstuck as I said, the view is that if you have sellable or rentable property then that must used and not the resources of the government as second homes are regarded as a luxury item or a means of income.7th October 2016 at 00:53 #1747595
I thought the lump sum from pension was classed as income and that’s why it was taxed but as I haven’t taken mine yet I can’t be absolutely sure.
CMU-C doesn’t take into account capital in a second home but as it’s a benefit just like RSA, they do assume an income from it even if you aren’t letting it and even if you can’t because it’s not habitable, in my experience (I got it for a year when I lost my S1 and had no income and I owned property other than my main home which I was unable to let or sell but I didn’t get RSA because of the assumed income from property). Even if you don’t get a totally free top up you can still get payment towards one with quite a high income level. I know this because I never renewed mine after that year and I have no top up and they keep writing to me to tell me to renew it, even after I’d explained I now had my S1 and income back. (Apparently with the size of my family I could have been claiming it my whole time here).
Capital gains tax: I paid this on a property I sold last year and the amount I paid it on (the profit) was added to my RFR on my avis d’impots this year, so that looks like it’s classed as income to me. I never paid income tax on it as I’d already paid capital gains on it but as it is there as part of my RFR I’m assuming it will affect things like whether I get a discount on tax d’habitation or whether I could claim CMU-C. I am entitled to a refund of the social charges part of that because I had my S1 back by the time I sold the property. However, I believe this changed as of the beginning of this year as social charges have now been designated as being paid towards some fund other than healthcare.7th October 2016 at 08:24 #1747605
pomhornParticipantJoined: 19 Sep 2005Location: Eure - ex Deux-SèvresTotal posts: 272227th October 2016 at 09:05 #1747612
smiffyPParticipantJoined: 21 Jan 2016Location: 61/14 border, Basse NormandieTotal posts: 853
Sorry but I have to say this, but isn’t the question not only can you but also, should you. Is it right that somebody with money to buy houses is taking advantage of CMU-C, which is a social benefit intended for people who cannot afford to pay for their own healthcare, not for people who prefer to let the state and other taxpayers pay for their healthcare and not pay a penny towards it even though they could?7th October 2016 at 10:57 #1747645
My assistante sociale applied for it for me when I suddenly had zero income and couldn’t afford the 140€ a month going out for my top up policy. She also applied for RSA for me and an allowance because I was receiving no child support but I never got either of those and it took two and a half years to sort out who should pay my child benefit so it was a really dodgy time for me. I lost my S1 and went onto CMUB for a year and the CMUC paperwork was filled out at the same time. I was very grateful for any help that year and as I couldn’t cancel the top up policy it was handy that they converted it to CMUC.
I have the same reasoning as you though and that’s why I never renewed it once my income was restored and I could afford to pay for a policy. The fact I haven’t got one is purely because I haven’t gotten round to it. Or maybe there is also a bit of procrastination there on my part because I want to feel I have a bit of money in the bank before risking getting stuck with those payments again, just in case a similar thing happens again. I hate the way they won’t let you cancel insurance here. Worse thing was, I was still paying for my ex husband who was by then in the UK.7th October 2016 at 11:02 #1747650
The thing that concerns me about getting CMU-C is that it’s a benefit. Surely that would affect any assessment of whether you were a legal resident here as it’s being a burden upon the state? That year I got CMU-C could put the kibosh on any future permanent residency application for me if the period they assess changes to more than five years for UK Citizens who are no longer EU Citizens. (I’d been legally resident with sufficient income etc for six years at the time but I read you have to be legally resident for ten years as a non EU Citizen to be able to claim permanent residency).7th October 2016 at 11:15 #1747655
Having said all the above, smiffyp, that’s my own opinion for myelf and I find it difficult to claim any sort of benefit (other than the standard child benefit) as it’s something I’ve never had to do. Ironic that when I suddenly found myself without income it was impossible to do when I really needed to but there you go. The rules in France are different to the UK though and money in the bank and owning property doesn’t exclude you from claiming some benefits and that does seem odd to us who are used to the UK system.8th October 2016 at 11:29 #1747824
madmanbobParticipantJoined: 07 Jul 2008Location: 24Total posts: 1445
“Sorry but I have to say this, but isn’t the question not only can you but also, should you. Is it right that somebody with money to buy houses is taking advantage of CMU-C, which is a social benefit intended for people who cannot afford to pay for their own healthcare, not for people who prefer to let the state and other taxpayers pay for their healthcare and not pay a penny towards it even though they could?”
Spot on my thoughts exactly. I don’t get any benefits and never have from the UK or France, but I can’t afford a second house to do up.16th March 2018 at 14:46 #1824989
nomossParticipantJoined: 09 Nov 2009Location: 11Total posts: 2156
You also have to declare “Les éléments de « train de vie » (objet d’art, collection et bijoux en possession du demandeur ou d’un membre de son foyer,…)”
This would obviously include “voitures de collection”
Thanks to the Autoroutes and the use of GPS it is now possible to travel the length and breadth of France without seeing anything or speaking to anyone. Inspired by Charles Kuralt
- This reply was modified 16 Mar 2018 14:49 by nomoss. Reason: Add source of quotation