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  • #903384
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    maxspeed
    Blocked
    Joined: 12 Jul 2008
    Location: Dept 33. 20Km Downstream of Montpon Menesterol
    Total posts: 740

    @flaneur wrote:

    I’m about to start it.

    I predict I will miss red wine. :cry:

    Is that for real :shock: give up wine….. not for me then..


    #903385
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    stewartp
    Member
    Joined: 20 Oct 2009
    Location: La Rochefoucauld (16)
    Total posts: 612

    I’ve been on it 6 days…..

    3 kilos gone!

    They predict I’ll hit target weight by the end of March.

    nice.


    'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? Jer 8:8
    A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five. Groucho Marx

    #903386
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    Note of caution:

    If you are hyperlipidaemic (high cholesterol) or have a family history of this, then you should seeks medical advice. Note, too, that the breakdown of body fats will produce hyperketosis (increased ketone compounds in the circulation) – not a huge problem unless you are diabetic but hyperketosis can lead to blood vessel damage and impaired kidney function. The risk of gout is increased.

    In general a healthy individual’s physiology should sort it all out but I would be careful if you have: High cholesterol (especially familial hyperlipidaemia), diabetes, liver or kidney impairment, gout. If in doubt get the GP to advise – in France, in particular, they should be well-versed in giving good advice.

    #903387
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    dennisthemenace
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    Joined: 06 Oct 2007
    Location: Region 24 Ste Foy la Grande
    Total posts: 447

    The only food substance that repairs and maintains brain function in carbohydrate. I cannot afford to lose any more cells so I will give this crazy diet a miss.


    dennisthemenace

    #903388
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    stewartp
    Member
    Joined: 20 Oct 2009
    Location: La Rochefoucauld (16)
    Total posts: 612

    Anybody else care to have a go at this one? I’m weary.

    I googled “foods that repair brain function” just for a starter and couldn’t find anything remotley close to suggesting that carbohydrates are the sole food group beneficial to brain growth, repair or function.

    Even found some that sugest that sugars are actively bad for the brain, and if sugars (fructose, glucose, lactose dextrose maltoes etc etc) aren’t carbohydrates then my brain IS malfunctioning.


    'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? Jer 8:8
    A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five. Groucho Marx

    #903389
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    dennisthemenace
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    Joined: 06 Oct 2007
    Location: Region 24 Ste Foy la Grande
    Total posts: 447

    Here is the quote from the American Medical Association as reproduced on Sparkpeople (the diet site) my misquote was that it was the only nutrient to repair and maintain brain function – I should have said only source of energy for the brain – sorry my error.

    “The carbohydrate world can be very confusing. At times, carbohydrates are accused of being the cause of gaining weight, while other times carbohydrates are viewed as the ideal energy source for the body. Let’s take a closer look at the functions of carbohydrates:

    Carbohydrates spare protein so that protein can concentrate on building, repairing, and maintaining body tissues instead of being used up as an energy source.

    For fat to be metabolized properly, carbohydrates must be present. If there are not enough carbohydrates, then large amounts of fat are used for energy. The body is not able to handle this large amount so quickly, so it accumulates ketone bodies, which make the body acidic. This causes a condition called ketosis.

    Carbohydrate is necessary for the regulation of nerve tissue and is the ONLY source of energy for the brain.

    Certain types of carbohydrates encourage the growth of healthy bacteria in the intestines for digestion.

    Some carbohydrates are high in fiber, which helps prevent constipation and lowers the risk for certain diseases such as cancer, heart disease and diabetes.”

    Therefore I would suggest that stopping carbohydrates completely as in the Dukan Diet is not such a good idea.


    dennisthemenace

    #903390
    Flaneur
    Flaneur
    Participant
    Joined: 20 Feb 2009
    Location: Living in hope
    Total posts: 1005

    Hmm … from what I remember, the only form of any energy in the body is glucose (ie carbohydrate): it’s just that the body can metabolise protein and fat into carbohydrate if there’s no “proper” carbs in the diet.

    The Dukan isn’t a low- or no-carb diet: it’s a low-fat one. Once you get past the “attack” phase of just protein, which lasts for 3 or 5 days (or occasionally longer, on medical advice) then you’re alternating a day of protein with a day of protein and vegetables (both unlimited), which makes it rather less extreme than Atkins.


    #903391
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    The Dukan diet is another variation of the Protein-Sparing Modified Fast. It is not particularly new or revolutionary in a physiological sense but has obviously captured the zeitgeist and been cleverly marketed.

    In essence these diets, which were originally aimed at obese diabetics, cause a large initial weight loss because fat has to be broken down into carbs and water (I bet people on the Dukan pee a lot at first?). So any carbs necessary for proper functioning (eg of the brain) are available. But the problem is that using fat breakdown to get glucose is inefficient and produces ketones, which aren’t healthy. Another unwanted side-effect is increased LDL (bad cholesterol).

    The reality of dieting is that most diets fail because people cheat or find excuses to waver. Cheating in the PSMF diets might actually be quite a good thing, even if it does slow weight loss, by sparing the physiological stress.

    Another proven (though not particularly sexy, chic or expensively chronicled in celebrity mags) method of losing weight is to eat less and exercise more. In spite of protestations by the overweight that they eat only a lettuce leaf a day and run 20 miles, it is clear from research (look at PubMed and search) that reducing food intake and exercise lower weight! Who’d have thought?

    #903392
    Flaneur
    Flaneur
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    Joined: 20 Feb 2009
    Location: Living in hope
    Total posts: 1005

    @jsks wrote:

    The Dukan diet is another variation of the Protein-Sparing Modified Fast.

    I don’t know about that – the amount of protein you eat is rather more than the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukan_diet) suggests – but you’re right about clever marketing (’twas ever thus) and peeing (though what proportion of the peeing is attributable to protein breakdown and what to all the water you have to drink is perhaps a moot point).

    I think you’re probably right about eating less and exercising more (I say “probably” since the body seems to have a tolerance for excess calories and doesn’t invariably turn them into fat).


    #903393
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    @flaneur wrote:

    @jsks wrote:

    The Dukan diet is another variation of the Protein-Sparing Modified Fast.

    I don’t know about that – the amount of protein you eat is rather more than the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukan_diet) suggests……….

    I DO know about that.

    I learned how to conduct clinical trials with the Royal college of Surgeons, not Wikipeadia.

    #903394
    Flaneur
    Flaneur
    Participant
    Joined: 20 Feb 2009
    Location: Living in hope
    Total posts: 1005

    So does “Protein-Sparing” mean something other than it says? A diet in which you eat nothing but protein for the first few days, and then unlimited protein, together with unlimited vegetables (as long as they’re on the list of low-carbohydrate veg) seems to me more like “Not-Sparing-the-Protein”.


    #903395
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    Well, it’s a modified fast except for protein which is taken in preference to other food groups. The original idea (as I remember it) was to ensure enough protein intake so that protein mass in the musculature was maintained. Then everybody forgot about the idea until Dr Dukan and Wikipedia – no, that’s not true, PSMFs have been studied for over 30 years in various forms with adjustments to reduce the physiological effects. So, the Dukan has taken as its basis the PSMF and adjusted it to reduce the more extreme effects – so it is a variation of the PSMF. I think I said The Dukan Diet was another variation of the PSMF? I don’t see the problem with describing it as such? I’m very unclear as to why you object to the term?

    Regardless of semantics over terminology, PSMF-based weight loss is well-documented, as are the side-effects. It is nothing new, revelatory or revolutionary but it is well presented and very much hip just now.

    But it is not without its potential harmful effects.

    That’s all I’m saying!

    #903396
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    @flaneur wrote:

    I think you’re probably right about eating less and exercising more (I say “probably” since the body seems to have a tolerance for excess calories and doesn’t invariably turn them into fat).

    That is unarguably true. However, if the intake of calories is less than the physiological expenditure weight loss through metabolism of fat initially and then muscle (in extremis). The balance can be varied by reducing the intake and increasing the output. The trick is finding that tipping point for each individual. For example, I can eat anything and not put on weight – my body just gets rid of what it doesn’t need – If I reduced my food intake by 50% it probably wouldn’t make a difference! But if I ate the same amount and steadily gained weight then reducing the intake would have an effect.

    Dieters use the excuse that it doesn’t matter how little they eat, they don’t lose weight and then seek salvation in a regimented, prescribed regime that disciplines the eating patterns. The successes can be spectacular but are due to nothing more exciting than controlling calorie intake (yes, it’s a bit more complex than that, but not outrageously so).

    A diet such as Dukan causes weight loss through control of the diet but it also appeals at a psychological level as the person effectively hands control to the diet. I’m not knocking that if it works, which it clearly does, but my scientific mind refuses to accept that good advertising = good science!

    #903397
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    greta
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    Joined: 11 Jul 2006
    Location: Labretonie
    Total posts: 254

    When I want to lose weight I follow the ELEM diet – Eat Less Exercise More that’s the one that always works


    Greta

    #903398
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    @greta wrote:

    When I want to lose weight I follow the ELEM diet – Eat Less Exercise More that’s the one that always works

    It does, doesn’t it?

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