Viewing 15 posts - 166 through 180 (of 206 total)
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  • #1797905
    vic evans
    vic evans
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    Joined: 25 Apr 2015
    Location: Brittany 29
    Total posts: 4066

    This is school metalwork basics. Copper work hardens so if you want to do further work it needs to be annealed. Heat to cherry red & cool/quench.

    Which takes us back to what  said yesterday #1797766


    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    #1797906
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    fittersmate
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    Joined: 08 Jun 2009
    Location: Brittany France dept 56
    Total posts: 1624

    A silver brazing rod of about 50% silver content works much better at around 600-650 C :???: If it melts in the 600 C range we used to call that silver solder. But terminology aside, surely that’s overkill. Isn’t ordinary soft solder more than strong enough to join copper water pipes?

    <hr />

    Tom

    Agreed Tom, I’ve never had a problem using soft solder for plumbing joints, a friend of mine is a pro plumber in the UK and wet pressure tests his new pipework to 10 bar for 30 mins so it can’t be said that soft-soldered pipework won’t hold the pressure here in France.

     

     

     


    #1797907
    Spotty
    Spotty
    Participant
    Joined: 02 Mar 2009
    Location: Spottyville sur Hoegaarden & 85 because the UK is a dump !
    Total posts: 5829

    This is school metalwork basics. Copper work hardens so if you want to do further work it needs to be annealed. Heat to cherry red & cool/quench.

    Which takes us back to what said yesterday #1797766

    <hr />

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    Yes indeedy  :good:


    Je suis Spotty - FSM, he boiled for our sins !

    #1797914
    Avatar
    mikej
    Participant
    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    Ah come on guys, I know I started all this, but don’t all start agreeing so soon, I have only just got my popcorn.  :whistle:

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    • This reply was modified 18 Oct 2017 11:02 by  mikej.
    #1797922
    tomdenne
    tomdenne
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Oct 2008
    Location: 58 La Nièvre
    Total posts: 4459

    The brazing myth is all about professional plumbers’ job preservation.

    :grin: Now you’ve got your popcorn Mike, why don’t we start discussing those click together pipe joints? I had to use one in a really inaccessible place and it’s been mint for nearly a decade. However, I still don’t really trust them.


    Tom

    #1797924
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    mikej
    Participant
    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    The brazing myth is all about professional plumbers’ job preservation. :grin: Now you’ve got your popcorn Mike, why don’t we start discussing those click together pipe joints? I had to use one in a really inaccessible place and it’s been mint for nearly a decade. However, I still don’t really trust them.

    <hr />

    Tom

    Agreed.

    Now the speedfit joints, one of the guys in the next village had just fitted his kitchen with them when the temperature went to -22C all of them where pushed apart by the ice, I know the temp was extreme, but I wonder at what pressure they fail. (rhetorical, I don’t use them)

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    #1797931
    vic evans
    vic evans
    Participant
    Joined: 25 Apr 2015
    Location: Brittany 29
    Total posts: 4066

    Now the speedfit joints, one of the guys in the next village had just fitted his kitchen with them when the temperature went to -22C all of them where pushed apart by the ice, I know the temp was extreme, but I wonder at what pressure they fail. (rhetorical, I don’t use them)

    I’ve seen the screwed bonnets on commercial size bronze gate valves ‘blown off ‘ at higher freezing temperatures than that.

    You don’t mention what happened to the other system components as there ‘aint much that will withstand the ice pressure at that sort of temperature. However if a few slipped grab rings on pushfit joints saved the rest of the system from damage I’d say “Result”


    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    #1797932
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    fittersmate
    Participant
    Joined: 08 Jun 2009
    Location: Brittany France dept 56
    Total posts: 1624

    What happens to french-style brazed pipework when it freezes hard?

    I know soft – soldered fittings get pushed off the pipe in a bad freeze, so what gives on French pipework? Does the pipe wall just stretch?


    #1797949
    vic evans
    vic evans
    Participant
    Joined: 25 Apr 2015
    Location: Brittany 29
    Total posts: 4066

    What happens to french-style brazed pipework when it freezes hard? I know soft – soldered fittings get pushed off the pipe in a bad freeze, so what gives on French pipework? Does the pipe wall just stretch?

    <hr />

    Probably does at first then it just splits like pipework in any other cold country.

    Matter of interest I think folk are losing sight of the fact that a lot of plumbers, not just French, prefers brazing as they dont have to carry huge stocks of fittings & can make up their own tees, reducers etc & braze ’em when the braze has much stronger gap filling properties than soft solder.


    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    #1797965
    vic evans
    vic evans
    Participant
    Joined: 25 Apr 2015
    Location: Brittany 29
    Total posts: 4066

    This thread got me thinking about the ‘alternative’ jointing methods we used.

    Great for  industrial buildings where long large bore horizontal pipe runs are used with small branches cut  & brazed in later http://www.rothenberger.com/en/produkte/-/93-teeextractor-sets-for-efficient-production-of-tbranches-(extractions)-for-fittingfree-pipe-installations-

    Great for use in existing buildings where there is a risk of fire with most other jointing methods. We used this system on dozens of new installations including our own offices & AFAIK had zero failures.  <b>http://tinyurl.com/y7vvzqty</b&gt;

     


    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    • This reply was modified 18 Oct 2017 17:45 by  vic evans. Reason: 1st link didn't work
    #1797972
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    mikej
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    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    Vic

    I think the main point was the statement that copper plumbing must be Brazed in France, the operative word is “must” nothing wrong with soft soldering for us DIY’s the Brazing route make’s sense for the professionals, but not us one off jockeys in the privacy of our own home.

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    #1797980
    vic evans
    vic evans
    Participant
    Joined: 25 Apr 2015
    Location: Brittany 29
    Total posts: 4066

    I think the main point was the statement that copper plumbing must be Brazed in France, the operative word is “must” nothing wrong with soft soldering for us DIY’s

    If you say so Mike, but I’m certainly not going to read  all 12 pages of this thread to verify that.

    I get your point about soft soldering & as I’ve never contested the fact that it’s OK & merely gave an opinion as to why some choose to braze I’m curious as to why you’re addressing this to me. :unsure:

     

     


    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    #1797994
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    mikej
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    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    No real reason, except that the thread was drifting away from the main thrust of its content during the last two pages i.e. that soft soldering is allowed in France for any type of domestic use.

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    #1797997
    vic evans
    vic evans
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    Joined: 25 Apr 2015
    Location: Brittany 29
    Total posts: 4066

    No real reason, except that the thread was drifting away from the main thrust of its content during the last two pages i.e. that soft soldering is allowed in France for any type of domestic use. Mike

    Don’t they all?

    It would be a pretty boring place if the anti thread drift police got a foothold :whistle:


    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

    #1797998
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    mikej
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    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    Too true, but like you I am awaiting to find out how to power my pool with a gnats wing and save hundreds of Euros a year.  B-)

    Now that’s what you call thread drift.  :yahoo:

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    • This reply was modified 18 Oct 2017 23:02 by  mikej.
French Plumbing, Heating & Septic Tanks
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