Viewing 15 posts - 361 through 375 (of 395 total)
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  • #1783962
    jsks
    jsks
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    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
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    I didn’t realise Mrs May was a cereal offender.

    #1783965
    tim17
    tim17
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    Joined: 19 Jun 2004
    Location: 17
    Total posts: 2890

    I didn’t realise Mrs May was a cereal offender.

    Very good but a bit corny.


    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    #1814451
    andy72
    andy72
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    Joined: 26 Oct 2008
    Location: Charente and NOT Milton Keynes
    Total posts: 7939

    Today’s events could be the end. Theresa May has made herself look very silly by agreeing to a deal on NI without consulting with the DUP. Was she calling the bluff of the DUP or is it just incompetence?


    Starve the troll

    #1814461
    CelticRambler
    CelticRambler
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    Location: Good question. What day is it?
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    In a conversation with a visiting friend from Ireland the other week, I forecast that TM would prepare an early depature, throw the DUP under the big red bus, and sacrifice NI for the sake of moving on with Phase 2. The “Theresa’s a great woman” comments by Juncker and Varadkar today have reinforced that feeling.

    The only way TM can come out of this mess (which wasn’t entirely of her making) is to get GB through to Phase 2. After that, everything and anything she agrees to is bound to be branded a failure – by one side or the other – so now is the time to go. A way has been found to heap all the blame on the DUP, giving TM the perfect opportunity to make her excuses and leave … and take them down with her.


    #1814463
    jsks
    jsks
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    Or is it a case of the tail wagging the tail?

    That any Prime Minister would allow herself to be dictated to by a group of fundamentalists at such a time beggars belief.  If she had even the tiniest bit of authority left this would not have happened but she chose to throw that away with the ego-trip election which blew up in her face.

    Incidentally, don’t forget that the DUP do not represent the whole of the NI electorate, most Norn Ironers are quite normal people.

    #1814488
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    icey
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    Or is it a case of the tail wagging the tail? That any Prime Minister would allow herself to be dictated to by a group of fundamentalists at such a time beggars belief. If she had even the tiniest bit of authority left this would not have happened but she chose to throw that away with the ego-trip election which blew up in her face. Incidentally, don’t forget that the DUP do not represent the whole of the NI electorate, most Norn Ironers are quite normal people.

    The ones they do represent are can be pretty scary though.

     


    • This reply was modified 04 Dec 2017 22:25 by  icey.
    #1814507
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    Bluebird
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    Joined: 01 Nov 2016
    Location: Dordogne
    Total posts: 462

    Today’s events could be the end. Theresa May has made herself look very silly by agreeing to a deal on NI without consulting with the DUP. Was she calling the bluff of the DUP or is it just incompetence?

    <hr />

    Starve the troll

    Yep, she could well be entering the departure lounge. Not just the issue with the DUP, but also non compliance with the ‘red lines’ letter recently sent by Rees Mogg and the other ‘wreck Britain’ nutters.


    #1814514
    drift
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    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
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    don’t forget that the DUP do not represent the whole of the NI electorate, most Norn Ironers are quite normal people.

     

    Agreed.  I stated this also on the United Ireland thread, pointing out there was more than one unionist party and why the DUP were elected.

    Its also worth pointing out (for the sake of balance) SF are a fundamentalist party also.

     

    What is also worth considering is the unionist population is the largest in N. Ireland and their nationality as British.  Not to mention moderate nationalist parties like Alliance.


    Anger is an energy !

    • This reply was modified 05 Dec 2017 00:08 by  drift.
    • This reply was modified 05 Dec 2017 00:15 by  drift.
    #1814524
    drift
    drift
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    That any Prime Minister would allow herself to be dictated to by a group of fundamentalists at such a time beggars belief.

     

    Thats a little unfair and prejudice against the unionist party.

    The Tory back benchers were never going to allow it either.


    Anger is an energy !

    #1814543
    andy72
    andy72
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    Location: Charente and NOT Milton Keynes
    Total posts: 7939

    Do you think the are prepared to see the Government fall and for the public to get another say on Brexit as a result though? I think it is likely that Labour will offer the public Brexit but with continued single market and customs union membership. There will be a fudge on freedom of movement which I believe was the single largest factor in the first vote, people are not really that bothered about the UK being able to negotiate trade deals with other countries, particularly with Trump and chlorinated chicken. Not exactly the future that the hard Brexiters on the Tory backbenchers wanted.


    Starve the troll

    #1814554
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    rabbit
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    Joined: 10 Sep 2016
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    No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.


    #1814555
    jsks
    jsks
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    That any Prime Minister would allow herself to be dictated to by a group of fundamentalists at such a time beggars belief.

    Thats a little unfair and prejudice against the unionist party. The Tory back benchers were never going to allow it either.

    <hr />

    Anger is an energy !

    I think that’s a very important point.  There is a hard core of Tory MPs at all levels in government who wish to see no deal so that the UK leaves on 29 May 2019 and is immediately and totally isolated from Europe.  The DUP alone couldn’t affect things quite so dramatically without knowing that they (for different reasons) are not alone in bearing influence on the negotiating team.

    My thoughts on the DUP are not so much a result of prejudice – I have not pre-judged them – but based on their stated ambitions which are inimical to tolerance and understanding but necessarily also informed by my wish to see the island of Ireland continuing to work as a more cohesive unit regardless of under which flag part or all of it exists.  At a time when Irish people need to look to the future it always strikes me as unhelpful that so many seem to be hostgaes to the past.

    In case you feel my living in England somehow disqualifies me from having an opinion let me just reassure you that as someone born and raised on the Shankill with both grandfathers members of the Orange order (and one in the Royal Black) and all known antecedents up to and including great-great grandparents being also N Irish protestants (except for one great-great-grandfather who came from Ayr) I have some small experience of the more extreme Unionism that still persists.  I just cannot reconcile that sort of bigotry with life in the 21st century.  While I am proud to be from NI I do not consider it a defining feature of my life and treat my joint British/Irish citizenship with equanimity and as a pragmatic solution to current uncertainties.

    I despise the DUP for its extremism, but that is not to say that I have any more respect for Sinn Fein – the 2 are just different sides of the same coin each displaying the sort of narrow-minded ideology that presents an obstacle to progress.  Especially after the slight rapprochement since the GFA (who would ever have thought McGuinness and Paisley could inhabit the same room, never mind become the chuckle brothers) it is a crying shame that old divisions and prejudices seem to be with us once again.

    #1814559
    andy72
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    Total posts: 7939

    No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.

    <hr />

    Well if you accept continued single market and customs union membership for the UK then that solves the Ireland  problem. Labour would in all probability offer that. I suppose it depends on how you view a successful outcome to negotiations and whether you want a Brexit at any cost or whether you want a pragmatic Brexit that keeps the current economic benefits of EU membership but addresses some of the issues that Brexit voters were most concerned about.

    Corbyn and others opposed to the Tory version of Brexit have already had meetings with Barnier so they will have a fair idea of what is achievable and what concessions can be had. Not a bad position to be in when you know in advance what is on offer and what can be offered to the electorate as a substitute for the current uncertainty. Another election and a Labour government that follows should result in a swift completion of negotiations and a Brexit that is more likely to work for those who voted for it than for those who manipulated others into voting for it for their own political and ideological reasons.

     


    Starve the troll

    #1814562
    Grumpy Yorkie
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    Joined: 30 Jan 2008
    Location: Villeréal, Lot et Garonne
    Total posts: 6782

    <p abp=”953″>No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.

    <p abp=”955″><hr />

    <p abp=”956″>Well if you accept continued single market and customs union membership for the UK then that solves the Ireland problem. Labour would in all probability offer that. I suppose it depends on how you view a successful outcome to negotiations and whether you want a Brexit at any cost or whether you want a pragmatic Brexit that keeps the current economic benefits of EU membership but addresses some of the issues that Brexit voters were most concerned about.

    <p abp=”957″>Corbyn and others opposed to the Tory version of Brexit have already had meetings with Barnier so they will have a fair idea of what is achievable and what concessions can be had. Not a bad position to be in when you know in advance what is on offer and what can be offered to the electorate as a substitute for the current uncertainty. Another election and a Labour government that follows should result in a swift completion of negotiations and a Brexit that is more likely to work for those who voted for it than for those who manipulated others into voting for it for their own political and economic reasons.

    <p abp=”958″>

    <hr abp=”960″>
    <p abp=”961″>Starve the troll

    If you think Corbyn could get concessions, why not May, Andy?

    S.


    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a '54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ................... bloody grand!

    #1814563
    drift
    drift
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    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    That any Prime Minister would allow herself to be dictated to by a group of fundamentalists at such a time beggars belief.

    Thats a little unfair and prejudice against the unionist party. The Tory back benchers were never going to allow it either.

    <hr /> Anger is an energy !

    I think that’s a very important point. There is a hard core of Tory MPs at all levels in government who wish to see no deal so that the UK leaves on 29 May 2019 and is immediately and totally isolated from Europe. The DUP alone couldn’t affect things quite so dramatically without knowing that they (for different reasons) are not alone in bearing influence on the negotiating team. My thoughts on the DUP are not so much a result of prejudice – I have not pre-judged them – but based on their stated ambitions which are inimical to tolerance and understanding but necessarily also informed by my wish to see the island of Ireland continuing to work as a more cohesive unit regardless of under which flag part or all of it exists. At a time when Irish people need to look to the future it always strikes me as unhelpful that so many seem to be hostgaes to the past. In case you feel my living in England somehow disqualifies me from having an opinion let me just reassure you that as someone born and raised on the Shankill with both grandfathers members of the Orange order (and one in the Royal Black) and all known antecedents up to and including great-great grandparents being also N Irish protestants (except for one great-great-grandfather who came from Ayr) I have some small experience of the more extreme Unionism that still persists. I just cannot reconcile that sort of bigotry with life in the 21st century. While I am proud to be from NI I do not consider it a defining feature of my life and treat my joint British/Irish citizenship with equanimity and as a pragmatic solution to current uncertainties. I despise the DUP for its extremism, but that is not to say that I have any more respect for Sinn Fein – the 2 are just different sides of the same coin each displaying the sort of narrow-minded ideology that presents an obstacle to progress. Especially after the slight rapprochement since the GFA (who would ever have thought McGuinness and Paisley could inhabit the same room, never mind become the chuckle brothers) it is a crying shame that old divisions and prejudices seem to be with us once again.

     

    You may have noticed a sharp rise in DUP votes J.

    The last sentence of your post is the reason behind this.  Since the death of Martin McGuinness, SF have pushed forward a hardline policy, the catalyst if you like for the divisions and prejudices rising at the present time.   Still not bad though.

     


    Anger is an energy !

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