Viewing 15 posts - 376 through 390 (of 395 total)
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  • #1814565
    andy72
    andy72
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    Joined: 26 Oct 2008
    Location: Charente and NOT Milton Keynes
    Total posts: 7939

    <p abp=”953″>No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.

    <p abp=”955″><hr />

    <p abp=”956″>Well if you accept continued single market and customs union membership for the UK then that solves the Ireland problem. Labour would in all probability offer that. I suppose it depends on how you view a successful outcome to negotiations and whether you want a Brexit at any cost or whether you want a pragmatic Brexit that keeps the current economic benefits of EU membership but addresses some of the issues that Brexit voters were most concerned about. <p abp=”957″>Corbyn and others opposed to the Tory version of Brexit have already had meetings with Barnier so they will have a fair idea of what is achievable and what concessions can be had. Not a bad position to be in when you know in advance what is on offer and what can be offered to the electorate as a substitute for the current uncertainty. Another election and a Labour government that follows should result in a swift completion of negotiations and a Brexit that is more likely to work for those who voted for it than for those who manipulated others into voting for it for their own political and economic reasons. <p abp=”958″>

    <hr abp=”960″> <p abp=”961″>Starve the troll

    If you think Corbyn could get concessions, why not May, Andy? S.

    <hr />

    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

     

    Corbyn doesn’t have his hands tied behind his back by Rees Mogg and co. Although May might want to offer continued single market and customs union membership and possibly get concessions on other things as a result she is unable to do so.


    Starve the troll

    #1814569
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    You may have noticed a sharp rise in DUP votes J. The last sentence of your post is the reason behind this. Since the death of Martin McGuinness, SF have pushed forward a hardline policy, the catalyst if you like for the divisions and prejudices rising at the present time. Still not bad though.

    Yes, I see this as both commuunities feeling threatened and retreating to their historic positions as shown by both DUP and SF soaking up more of the vote of their respective constituencies.  Had it not been for TM’s disastrous, ego-driven election the DUP would not currently be in a position of such influence and, perhaps, the non-DUP-voting people would feel less marginalised.

     

    #1814570
    Grumpy Yorkie
    Grumpy Yorkie
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    Joined: 30 Jan 2008
    Location: Villeréal, Lot et Garonne
    Total posts: 6782

    <p abp=”549″><p abp=”953″>No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.

    <p abp=”955″><hr />

    <p abp=”551″><p abp=”956″>Well if you accept continued single market and customs union membership for the UK then that solves the Ireland problem. Labour would in all probability offer that. I suppose it depends on how you view a successful outcome to negotiations and whether you want a Brexit at any cost or whether you want a pragmatic Brexit that keeps the current economic benefits of EU membership but addresses some of the issues that Brexit voters were most concerned about. <p abp=”957″>Corbyn and others opposed to the Tory version of Brexit have already had meetings with Barnier so they will have a fair idea of what is achievable and what concessions can be had. Not a bad position to be in when you know in advance what is on offer and what can be offered to the electorate as a substitute for the current uncertainty. Another election and a Labour government that follows should result in a swift completion of negotiations and a Brexit that is more likely to work for those who voted for it than for those who manipulated others into voting for it for their own political and economic reasons. <p abp=”958″>

    <hr abp=”960″> <p abp=”961″>Starve the troll

    <p abp=”553″>If you think Corbyn could get concessions, why not May, Andy? S.

    <p abp=”555″><hr />

    <p abp=”556″>Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    <p abp=”557″>

    <p abp=”558″>Corbyn doesn’t have his hands tied behind his back by Rees Mogg and co. Although May might want to offer continued single market and customs union membership and possibly get concessions on other things as a result she is unable to do so.

    <hr abp=”560″>
    <p abp=”561″>Starve the troll

    Labour is even more fundamentally riven than the Tories – how does that work, then?

    S.


    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a '54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ................... bloody grand!

    #1814572
    nifty
    nifty
    Participant
    Joined: 17 Nov 2007
    Location: SW France
    Total posts: 9999

    You may have noticed a sharp rise in DUP votes J. The last sentence of your post is the reason behind this. Since the death of Martin McGuinness, SF have pushed forward a hardline policy, the catalyst if you like for the divisions and prejudices rising at the present time. Still not bad though.

    Yes, I see this as both commuunities feeling threatened and retreating to their historic positions as shown by both DUP and SF soaking up more of the vote of their respective constituencies. Had it not been for TM’s disastrous, ego-driven election the DUP would not currently be in a position of such influence and, perhaps, the non-DUP-voting people would feel less marginalised.

    as already mentioned, such irony.


    http://niftyone.wordpress.com/ 'Life is short, art long, opportunity fleeting, experience deceptive, judgement difficult'. Aphorisms Hippocrates
    #1814575
    Avatar
    icey
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 4332

    And Mr Jones, the Welsh Labour leader, said: “We cannot allow different parts of the UK to be more favourably treated than others.

    “If one part of the UK is granted continued participation in the Single Market & Customs Union, then we fully expect to be made the same offer.”

    Scotland obviously wants the same, so May, time to recognise that isn’t it.


    #1814576
    drift
    drift
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    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    You may have noticed a sharp rise in DUP votes J. The last sentence of your post is the reason behind this. Since the death of Martin McGuinness, SF have pushed forward a hardline policy, the catalyst if you like for the divisions and prejudices rising at the present time. Still not bad though.

    Yes, I see this as both commuunities feeling threatened and retreating to their historic positions as shown by both DUP and SF soaking up more of the vote of their respective constituencies. Had it not been for TM’s disastrous, ego-driven election the DUP would not currently be in a position of such influence and, perhaps, the non-DUP-voting people would feel less marginalised.

     

    Why would SF feel threatened after the death of McGuinness ?  The unionists did not feel threatened when Paisley died.

    SF used the death of McGuinness in a kind of martyr scenario to rally republican hardliners, they brought down the NI assembly which has been discussed on the other thread and pushed forward a hardline stance.  This in turn had the knock on effect of unionists voting hardline also.  fwiw  I was never a DUP voter, however I think your being a little unfair to them.

    Whereabouts on the Shankill are you from ?


    Anger is an energy !

    #1814578
    andy72
    andy72
    Participant
    Joined: 26 Oct 2008
    Location: Charente and NOT Milton Keynes
    Total posts: 7939

    <p abp=”549″><p abp=”953″>No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.

    <p abp=”955″><hr />

    <p abp=”551″><p abp=”956″>Well if you accept continued single market and customs union membership for the UK then that solves the Ireland problem. Labour would in all probability offer that. I suppose it depends on how you view a successful outcome to negotiations and whether you want a Brexit at any cost or whether you want a pragmatic Brexit that keeps the current economic benefits of EU membership but addresses some of the issues that Brexit voters were most concerned about. <p abp=”957″>Corbyn and others opposed to the Tory version of Brexit have already had meetings with Barnier so they will have a fair idea of what is achievable and what concessions can be had. Not a bad position to be in when you know in advance what is on offer and what can be offered to the electorate as a substitute for the current uncertainty. Another election and a Labour government that follows should result in a swift completion of negotiations and a Brexit that is more likely to work for those who voted for it than for those who manipulated others into voting for it for their own political and economic reasons. <p abp=”958″>

    <hr abp=”960″> <p abp=”961″>Starve the troll

    <p abp=”553″>If you think Corbyn could get concessions, why not May, Andy? S.

    <p abp=”555″><hr /> <p abp=”556″>Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    <p abp=”557″> <p abp=”558″>Corbyn doesn’t have his hands tied behind his back by Rees Mogg and co. Although May might want to offer continued single market and customs union membership and possibly get concessions on other things as a result she is unable to do so.

    <hr abp=”560″> <p abp=”561″>Starve the troll

    Labour is even more fundamentally riven than the Tories – how does that work, then? S.

    <hr />

    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    How many Rees Moggs do Labour have?


    Starve the troll

    #1814581
    Avatar
    icey
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 4332

    :grin:


    • This reply was modified 05 Dec 2017 11:05 by  icey.
    #1814584
    Grumpy Yorkie
    Grumpy Yorkie
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Jan 2008
    Location: Villeréal, Lot et Garonne
    Total posts: 6782

    <p abp=”803″><p abp=”549″><p abp=”953″>No doubt the Tories have really made a hash of it. If the government was to fall and Labour were elected do you believe that the Labour ministers and Jeremy Corbyn would be better negotiators? Please don’t respond with “they couldn’t be any worse” – because they could be.

    <p abp=”955″><hr />

    <p abp=”805″><p abp=”551″><p abp=”956″>Well if you accept continued single market and customs union membership for the UK then that solves the Ireland problem. Labour would in all probability offer that. I suppose it depends on how you view a successful outcome to negotiations and whether you want a Brexit at any cost or whether you want a pragmatic Brexit that keeps the current economic benefits of EU membership but addresses some of the issues that Brexit voters were most concerned about. <p abp=”957″>Corbyn and others opposed to the Tory version of Brexit have already had meetings with Barnier so they will have a fair idea of what is achievable and what concessions can be had. Not a bad position to be in when you know in advance what is on offer and what can be offered to the electorate as a substitute for the current uncertainty. Another election and a Labour government that follows should result in a swift completion of negotiations and a Brexit that is more likely to work for those who voted for it than for those who manipulated others into voting for it for their own political and economic reasons. <p abp=”958″>

    <hr abp=”960″> <p abp=”961″>Starve the troll

    <p abp=”807″><p abp=”553″>If you think Corbyn could get concessions, why not May, Andy? S.

    <p abp=”555″><hr /> <p abp=”556″>Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    <p abp=”809″><p abp=”557″> <p abp=”558″>Corbyn doesn’t have his hands tied behind his back by Rees Mogg and co. Although May might want to offer continued single market and customs union membership and possibly get concessions on other things as a result she is unable to do so.

    <hr abp=”560″> <p abp=”561″>Starve the troll

    <p abp=”811″>Labour is even more fundamentally riven than the Tories – how does that work, then? S.

    <p abp=”813″><hr />

    <p abp=”814″>Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    <p abp=”815″>How many Rees Moggs do Labour have?

    <hr abp=”817″>
    <p abp=”818″>Starve the troll

    Funny, but not the issue, Andy …….. Labour is even more divided that the Tories, or do you say otherwise?

    S.


    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a '54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ................... bloody grand!

    #1814585
    Grumpy Yorkie
    Grumpy Yorkie
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    Joined: 30 Jan 2008
    Location: Villeréal, Lot et Garonne
    Total posts: 6782

    Just seeing the length of the last, rolled-up post and many worse …. Neville would be having a fit if he was still modding.

    S.


    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a '54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ................... bloody grand!

    #1814592
    Avatar
    icey
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 4332

    Neville who? I remember someone that wanted to go back to imperial measurements but couldn’t explain why, do you mean him?
    Char’s recently posted thread is very good.

    I find @name very helpful, someone on here pointed out that makes posts easier to read.


    #1814615
    andy72
    andy72
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    Joined: 26 Oct 2008
    Location: Charente and NOT Milton Keynes
    Total posts: 7939

    GY, Labour will unite around SM and CU membership. The Tories cannot.


    Starve the troll

    #1814617
    jsks
    jsks
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    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    Whereabouts on the Shankill are you from ?

    Tennant Street, Southern end next to the Shankill road. Certainly rarely went north of the Crumlin Road! One set of grandparents in Woodvale the others in Short Strand. Although I had one Aunt who lived her whole life on the Lower Falls – going to visit her was always adrenalin-boosting. Funnily enough, in spite of her background she never suffered any direct bigotry but she was a sweet old lady by the early 70s and possibly the only person on the Lower Falls whose brother in law was a Royal Black. He never visited her and I’ve no idea to the background that meant she lived there.

    I was 12 years old when ”the troubles” started. I didn’t understand the hatred then; I still don’t.

    #1815009
    drift
    drift
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    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    Ahh you lived at the Stadium end.  I ask because my grandparents came from Langford St, which doesn’t exist anymore since the major re developement of the Shankill/Crumlin Rd area.   I never lived on the Shankill, I was born in South Belfast (lisburn Rd) although my GP was Dr SRC Ritchie on the Shankill until 1978, when I moved to East Belfast.

    I’m guessing Dr Ritchie was your GP then also. lol

     

    The hatred you speak of is virtually non existent nowadays and has been for the last 20 odd years, thats not to say people have forgotten the traumas they have been through.   Although there is a minority who continue to screw things up for everyone.


    Anger is an energy !

    • This reply was modified 07 Dec 2017 20:09 by  drift.
    #1815016
    jsks
    jsks
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    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    Some parts have really changed yet others remain almost as they were a half century ago. I must admit I wouldn’t recognise the Lower Shankill from the way it was. Each time I go back the streets and buildings seem to have shrunk.

     

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