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  • #863364
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    messean
    Member
    Joined: 23 Mar 2009
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 33

    http://www.touchepasamanation.com/

    If you feel strongly about the expulsions you might like to sign this petition.


    #863365
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    parsnips
    Participant
    Joined: 18 Aug 2008
    Location: charente - maritime 17
    Total posts: 2424

    @trre wrote:

    @tricia wrote:

    After all they aren’t physically abused in Romania?

    It depends who one believes, but some human rights groups allege that Roma in Romania are routinely discriminated against, cannot find work and are subject to frequent attacks by “native” Romanians that are not investigated by the police who are often complicit in the violence anyway.

    My own experience in Romania was that Roma were widely dispised – a bit like the way some Australians speak about “Abos” – but at that time the economy was in tatters and has much improved since, so maybe the lot of the Roma has too.

    I suppose if one is going to be poor it might as well be somewhere like France where the possibility of getting a good kicking is rather less then elsewhere.

    Hi,
    Everything you have written above strengthens my feeling that this is a Romanian problem which needs to be addressed in Romania at the expense of Romanians, not exported to a country where it is easier for the “Rom” to practice their traditional lifestyle at our expense.
    If they are despised in their own country which has hundreds of years experience of them there must be a reason;has anybody considered that the traditional view of them might be based on fact?
    As for signing a petition, if I was french, I’d think it a bit rich for one set of immigrants(us) who many french people(rightly or wrongly) see as a drain on their health and social systems, to campaign on behalf of another set.


    #863366
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    murkybuckets
    Member
    Joined: 21 Apr 2010
    Location: 77
    Total posts: 43

    @jam wrote:

    Whatever the case – as far as the article in the OP is concerned – it was Ms Reding stamping and shouting and getting herself noticed that I read, no real information or facts about the circumstances, so how can we make a reasoned judgement from an article like that?

    How many articles would you like to consider? There is 4 on the LeParisien website just for today, and that’s a slow day!
    Even the Dwarf’s own party, and ministers, give interviews denouncing the circular.


    #863367
    Redbidet
    Redbidet
    Participant
    Joined: 17 Jul 2003
    Location: EUROPE
    Total posts: 5081

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11243923

    337 MEP’s supported a resolution

    It said the parliament “expresses its deep concern at the measures taken by the French authorities and other member states’ authorities targeting Roma and Travellers and providing for their expulsion” and “urges those authorities immediately to suspend all expulsions of Roma”.


    #863368
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    messean
    Member
    Joined: 23 Mar 2009
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 33

    Parsnips
    I was asked to sign the petition by a French friend, which i did. If you do not agree then do not sign it.


    #863369
    Redbidet
    Redbidet
    Participant
    Joined: 17 Jul 2003
    Location: EUROPE
    Total posts: 5081

    I believe that we all have the right, whatever nationality ,and whatever country we may live in,to protest in the strongest terms possible about human rights abuses.

    To say we do not have the right to protest about these expulsions just because we are immigrants also is not logical.


    #863370
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    lobelia
    Member
    Joined: 21 Jun 2007
    Location: central France
    Total posts: 673

    I agree.

    I haven’t come across any opinions polls so far to measure what the French actually think of this. I wonder how hostile people are. Where I live now, we see very few Roma people, but when I used to live in Lyon people used to complain about them. I used to see them in groups around the Part Dieu railway station with some young kids, people used to say they passed the kids round so whoever was begging was carrying one, and it is true that those asking for money did always seem to have a child. You have to wonder how bad things must be in Roumania to make that sort of lifestyle desirable.


    #863371
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    janes
    Participant
    Joined: 08 Dec 2003
    Location: Gone
    Total posts: 1092

    Having seen locally in the UK the effects of “the authorities” knee-jerk responses to the reputation, rather than the situation of Roma people, and read some of the opinions expressed here, I can see how this situation in France has arisen and escalated.

    In my local town a couple of years back there were several dawn raids by Police and Social Services (widely reported in the national press and TV) to remove small children from several Roma families, on the grounds that the children had been trafficked into the UK for the express purposes of begging and stealing.

    Less widely reported was the fact that within days the children were all returned to their families as it transpired that not only were they NOT trafficked into the UK, but also they WERE the children of the people with whom they were living, and no criminal activity relating to the children was ever proved.

    There are Roma in France and the UK who are living on the proceeds of crime, sure….but there are those who aren’t.That goes for people from any other ethnic group, too. Given that popular opinion tars all Roma as a group with the same brush, imagine how hard it must be for anyone from that group to find accommodation, employment or any of the other things they need to do to legitimise their presence in almost ANY European country.

    Parsnips asks “has anyone considered that the traditional view of them might be based on fact?”. I have a real problem with that question. Is it possible to just dismiss an entire nation/ethnic group/whatever-you-want-to-call-it in such simplistic terms? Isn’t it like saying “all Muslims are terrorists”?


    The revolution is just a T-shirt away.... http://nowhereonthames.blogspot.com

    #863372
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    2-2-tango
    Participant
    Joined: 21 Oct 2009
    Location: Southern 79
    Total posts: 32

    I really don’t see why France should take on the burden of the Roma coming from other countries. As a comparison, Spanish gypsies are no longer nomadic for the most part and nevertheless, cause enormous societal problems.

    In Spain most of them live in public housing but even so, it’s been my observation that they prefer to send their young children out to beg in the town centre rather than sending them to school; then they cry about how they can’t find jobs and are discriminated against. Many adults I’ve met have been either fully or functionally illiterate. The upshot is that hey simply place no value on intellectual pursuits.

    The rent-a-baby scheme is alive and well and has been reported in the Spanish press. I used to see the same guy, year after year, drop down on his knees in front of people waiting for a bus while holding an infant, supplicating for milk money. The child should have already been attending school by the time I left Spain but oddly, he never grew an inch! :roll:

    Bag-snatching is one of the common occupations for young men and it is a well known fact that if you have a bicycle stolen you should go look for it at the Thursday flea market. Pickpocketing is one of the skills that the more talented children are taught. Lots of drugs, including cocaine and heroin, are used by many of the young men.

    There are some gypsies who sell in the markets and one of the traditional occupations is blacksmithing. Of course, there are also some talented gypsies who’ve made a name for themselves in the world of flamenco, going on numerous world tours and raking in enough money to build their families enormous houses and to buy cars, furs and diamonds.

    It bears pointing out that most gypsies do not consider non-gypsies as quite human, therefore they see us as fair game for their various “enterprises.” I’ve personally known a few women who romanticised the gypsy life style and married gypsies. Their lives have not been a bed of roses, even when they married gypsies who were famous and were able to provide a good level of comfort with their earnings.


    #863373
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    pp-chris
    Member
    Joined: 28 Jul 2005
    Location: Somewhere in the woods in La Vienne, (86) France
    Total posts: 1785

    Jews, Blacks, Irish, Muslims, Roma, Dogs……….

    Chris


    http://www.planetepassion.eu

    Association Planete Passion - Wildlife in France in the English language.

    #863374
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    murkybuckets
    Member
    Joined: 21 Apr 2010
    Location: 77
    Total posts: 43

    Suppose you could build a concrete wall, add guards with machine guns, search lights, guard dogs, razor wire, minefields………………….
    That’ll keep them out. It worked for 50 years.


    #863375
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    murkybuckets
    Member
    Joined: 21 Apr 2010
    Location: 77
    Total posts: 43

    Nope.
    I’ve had another idea. Spotchecks.
    If you can’t immediately produce a French passeport, it’s garde a vue time. Except this time it’s produce all your proof of income, fisc data, CPAM, police reports, vehicle registration, insurence, CT, SIRET………….. should get rid of a few undesirables.
    Might even clean up Limoges airport carpark :D


    #863376
    MikB
    MikB
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Mar 2005
    Location: Almost nowhere - 31 Haute Garonne
    Total posts: 411

    Brings to mind a well known piece of verse:-

    First, they came for the Jews. But I was not a Jew, so I did not speak up.

    Then they came for the communists.
    But I was not a communist, so I did not speak up.

    Then they came for the trade unionists.
    But I was not a trade unionist, so I did not speak up.

    And when they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out for me.


    #863377
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    chrisieb
    Blocked
    Joined: 25 Jun 2008
    Location: Here, there, everywhere, but always in France!
    Total posts: 3376

    @mikb wrote:

    Brings to mind a well known piece of verse:-

    First, they came for the Jews. But I was not a Jew, so I did not speak up.

    Then they came for the communists.
    But I was not a communist, so I did not speak up.

    Then they came for the trade unionists.
    But I was not a trade unionist, so I did not speak up.

    And when they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out for me.

    Franklin H. Littell


    #863378
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    pomhorn
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Sep 2005
    Location: Eure - ex Deux-Sèvres
    Total posts: 27222

    Hi!

    There seem to be quite some differences of appreciation on France’s position on the expulsion ( most of them with their consent ) of Roms, where France maintains that they are applying EC law. Will it go as far as the EC Court?

    See more – it does not help that today Mr. Sarkozy suggested to the EC Commissary ( who come from Luxemburg ) that Luxemburg should volunteer to accept them on their territory!

    French Link: Ici

    English Google Translation( can be quite approximate or even wrong): Here

    Yours,

    pomhorn

    NB. For an exact translation, especially in administrative matters, you may need the help of an expert, to do an exact translation.)


    pomhorn

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