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  • #1772284
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    Grannyschumacher
    Blocked
    Joined: 21 Nov 2016
    Location: Sheffield/Merignac
    Total posts: 175

    The cracks are appearing is a good thread for the diehard EU haters. Let Scotland have the chance to make there own future and be part of the EU.

    Amen to that.


    In through the nose, out through the mouth.

    #1772286
    tim17
    tim17
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Jun 2004
    Location: 17
    Total posts: 2890

    Scotland and why it should have a second referendum, the two minute version. David Cameron who spent quite a bit of time telling us how wonderful the EU is now that there has been a change of boss, its a terrible place and we will be better on our own, rule fecin Britannia bla bla bla. The majority of England voted for Farages policy, hijacked by the true working class millionaires Boris and Gove. Lots were taken in by their lies and stories. No matter how you look at Boris he is a jack ass but you were taken in by him. Scotland does have a fairly vibrant economy and after the UK leave the EU, the London financial sector can easily relocate to Edinburgh, which has a well established financial sector. The Scots see the benefits of being part of the EU, if they become independent and part of the EU, Scots can move to France without having to have an income of around 28000 to live here. The cracks are appearing is a good thread for the diehard EU haters. Let Scotland have the chance to make there own future and be part of the EU.

    <hr />

    Why would City banks want to relocate to Edinburgh?


    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    #1772287
    dantheman
    dantheman
    Participant
    Joined: 16 Nov 2014
    Location: France
    Total posts: 2283

    If my memory serves me right Mysty and Icey were not for the last independence for Scotland referendum.

    Good on them for seeing the Brexit ‘light’.

    PS great post from Mysty back there. I would have used quotes but you get told off for using things that should just work but don’t on this piece of shoite.


    • This reply was modified 01 Apr 2017 22:02 by  dantheman.
    #1772290
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

      Grannyshoemaker

    As things stand the pound is Scotland’s as much as it is England’s, NI’s or Wales’.

    Intransigence by the UK with regards to currency would be seen as hostile by the rest of the world

    . You can’t have it both ways.

    <hr />

    As things stand…………..yes, maybe at present, not quite the case,  if they vote for independence.

    No hostility from the EU towards the UK then ? lol

    Can’t have it both ways.     Exactly what EU has told the UK regards “cherry picking” !

    The UK can equally walk away from the EU and pay them nothing, leaving them to pick up the bill, just like Scotland.

     

     

     

     


    Anger is an energy !

    #1772292
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    Grannyschumacher
    Blocked
    Joined: 21 Nov 2016
    Location: Sheffield/Merignac
    Total posts: 175

    OK you win. I’m getting out now before you tell me I have a big fat bum and that your dad is bigger than mine.


    In through the nose, out through the mouth.

    #1772306
    tim17
    tim17
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Jun 2004
    Location: 17
    Total posts: 2890

    On the Brexit threads people are claiming the result was not ‘the will of the people’ (even though a majority voted for it) yet here the Scots MUST be allowed indyref2 even though there is no real evidence that they want one.


    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    #1772308
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    icey
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 4332

    On the Brexit threads people are claiming the result was not ‘the will of the people’ (even though a majority voted for it) yet here the Scots MUST be allowed indyref2 even though there is no real evidence that they want one.

    <hr />

    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    Actually, what I resent is the implication when the phrase is used about the British people is that Brexit is something that is supported by everyone and it simply isn’t.

    I do agree with your last point, talking to many back in Scotland that seems to the consensus. However, if there is a second vote, dantheman is right, my opinion has changed. The future has changed for the UK and my choice reflects that.


    #1772310
    andy72
    andy72
    Participant
    Joined: 26 Oct 2008
    Location: Charente and NOT Milton Keynes
    Total posts: 7939

    That is the inconvenient thing about democracy, people can change their minds in the light of events and reality. That applies both to Brexit and Scottish independence although those who ‘won’ those referendums do not like the idea that democracy didn’t end on the day they won.


    Starve the troll

    #1772316
    tim17
    tim17
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Jun 2004
    Location: 17
    Total posts: 2890

    That is the inconvenient thing about democracy, people can change their minds in the light of events and reality. That applies both to Brexit and Scottish independence although those who ‘won’ those referendums do not like the idea that democracy didn’t end on the day they won.

    <hr />

    Starve the troll

    Except the Scots seemingly haven’t changed their minds even after the Brexit result and that’s what I have a problem with.


    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    #1772319
    Avatar
    Grannyschumacher
    Blocked
    Joined: 21 Nov 2016
    Location: Sheffield/Merignac
    Total posts: 175

    On the Brexit threads people are claiming the result was not ‘the will of the people’ (even though a majority voted for it) yet here the Scots MUST be allowed indyref2 even though there is no real evidence that they want one.

    <hr />

    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    Is there REAL evidence they don’t? Surely having a referendum is the clearest way to resolve the issue. Then everyone who has a vote can express their opinion.  The Scots voted overwhelmingly for a party that had the option of a second referendum in it’s manefesto. Last week they won a vote in parĺiament to request a section 30 order.

    With a 36.9% share of the vote the Tories called a referendum on leaving the EU – fair?

    With a 46.7% share of the vote the SNP intend calling a referendum on leaving the UK – unfair?

     


    In through the nose, out through the mouth.

    #1772324
    tim17
    tim17
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Jun 2004
    Location: 17
    Total posts: 2890

    On the Brexit threads people are claiming the result was not ‘the will of the people’ (even though a majority voted for it) yet here the Scots MUST be allowed indyref2 even though there is no real evidence that they want one.

    <hr /> Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    Is there REAL evidence they don’t? Surely having a referendum is the clearest way to resolve the issue. Then everyone who has a vote can express their opinion. The Scots voted overwhelmingly for a party that had the option of a second referendum in it’s manefesto. Last week they won a vote in parĺiament to request a section 30 order. With a 36.9% share of the vote the Tories called a referendum on leaving the EU – fair? With a 46.7% share of the vote the SNP intend calling a referendum on leaving the UK – unfair?

    <hr />

    Since the Brexit result there have been countless polls in Scotland about another referendum and none have suggested opinion has changed which is surprising given that Scots voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. This tells me that Brexit is a red herring for indyref2 but is being seized upon by the SNP and the Greens who are desperate for independence. Obviously if the Brexit negotiations go badly then public opinion might change but I think NS has jumped the gun somewhat.

    Here’s another spin on what’s fair or unfair.

    EU referendum bill in H of C – votes for 544, against 53 – massive majority.

    Indyref2 bill in Holyrood – votes for 69, against 59 – small majority.

     


    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

    #1772337
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    Grannyschumacher
    Blocked
    Joined: 21 Nov 2016
    Location: Sheffield/Merignac
    Total posts: 175

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Your comparing apples and oranges. WM is a FPTP parliament. Holyrood is a PR parliament. On the basis of FPTP the Holyrood vote would have been 59 – 11 in support of a section 30 order.</p>

    Extrapolating the Scottish result from the WM vote it would have been 53 – 2 against Brexit

    That’s the real democratic deficit in British politics.

    In Europe the UK had a veto as did every other membet yet “democratic deficit” was a Leave war cry.

    It’s absolute hypocracy to defend or support in any way the UK’s position with regard Europe while opposing Scottish independence on the basis of the size of a majority.


    In through the nose, out through the mouth.

    #1772341
    mysty2
    mysty2
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 9603

    Tim a wise man like yourself should not be taken in by what you read. Remember that thread called the cracks are appearing and just to take two members at random, lets say largewhite and grumpy yorkie. They both said they did not want ruled and told what to do by some unelected eurocat or something similar.

    That is simply not true, I just got an email from Junker :yes:   see below

    They are either directly elected or nominated by the leaders of the constituent countries. It’s as misleading as the EU audit argument.

     

     


    #1772364
    CelticRambler
    CelticRambler
    Participant
    Joined: 01 Apr 2008
    Location: Good question. What day is it?
    Total posts: 6004

    Well, if/when the Scots decide to go it alone, at least there’s one less point to argue about:

    Spain has said it would not veto an attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU, in a boost to Nicola Sturgeon’s campaign for a second independence referendum and the clearest sign yet that Brexit has softened Madrid’s longstanding opposition.

    Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland’s EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK.

    He also said Edinburgh would have to apply for membership, a process fraught with uncertainty that is likely to take several years. But asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t.”

    from The Guardian


    #1772365
    tim17
    tim17
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Jun 2004
    Location: 17
    Total posts: 2890

    Well, if/when the Scots decide to go it alone, at least there’s one less point to argue about:

    Spain has said it would not veto an attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU, in a boost to Nicola Sturgeon’s campaign for a second independence referendum and the clearest sign yet that Brexit has softened Madrid’s longstanding opposition. Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland’s EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK. He also said Edinburgh would have to apply for membership, a process fraught with uncertainty that is likely to take several years. But asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t.”

    from The Guardian

    <hr />

    Don’t quite see this a strengthening NS as they said that five years ago –

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/304495/Spain-will-not-veto-an-independent-Scotland-joining-EU

    What’s more telling is that Dastis said that Scotland’s EU membership will take years.


    Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes (Wilde)

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