Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1823974
    Avatar
    Petefisch
    Participant
    Joined: 26 Feb 2018
    Location: Aude
    Total posts: 3

    I have a house in a small hamlet with 8 acres of parcels of land not attached to the property.  Put the house on the market and the farmers son ‘registered his interest’ in buying the land.

    He is also registered as a farmer (his mum is the mayor).

    He wants the agricultural land and the hangar but the hangar is a great selling point of the house and the land has woodland which is great for trees for the log burner.

    What are my options? Can I lease the land etc. to the new owner of the house (1000 year lease) for a peppercorn rent?  Or should I just give in a let him have the land.

    I know he will want too pay nothing for it but some of it is in the hamlet and therefore could be used as building land.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Pete


    #1823985
    Hal
    Hal
    Participant
    Joined: 06 Jan 2011
    Location: Limoux, 11300 Aude.
    Total posts: 3793

    Thoughts are that you may not have any say in where your land goes. The farmer can go to SAFER with a case and they will tell you whether or not you can sell the land with your house or have to sell it to the farmer at a price laid down by SAFER.

    You say his mother is the mayor. Knowing the set-up as I do, then I think you should be wooing SAFER and not a forum, because it takes little knowledge to know how this will probably end up!

    I am very surprised you do not know this if you own agricultural land. You, through your notaire, should have notified SAFER of your intention to sell the land two months before your proposed sale…

    • This reply was modified 26 Feb 2018 17:48 by  Hal.
    #1823987
    Avatar
    Petefisch
    Participant
    Joined: 26 Feb 2018
    Location: Aude
    Total posts: 3

    Is there a limit under which SAFER doesn’t apply?  Can I give part of the land to the conservationists and then not go to SAFER?

    The house hasn’t been sold it is just on the market.

    We really don’t want to upset the rest of the hamlet and the neighbours don’t want the farmer taking all the land, deforesting it and ploughing it.

    thanks,

    Pete

     


    #1823990
    CelticRambler
    CelticRambler
    Participant
    Joined: 01 Apr 2008
    Location: Good question. What day is it?
    Total posts: 6004

    To quote the old Irish maxim, when giving directions: if I was in your position, I wouldn’t start from here! :lol:

    You’ve willingly stepped into the SAFER trap, so already limited your options. This page sets out the various terms and conditions that apply, and through which you might be able to thread a way forward.

    Some points to consider:
    – sell off the non-attached land as a separate transaction. That will reduce the total surface area of the house-and-garden parcel, perhaps bringing it under one of the thresholds definied in the legislation
    – regarding the woodland: are you going to cut down the trees and burn them? If not, then the “log burner” argument is irrelevant. A prospective purchaser might see them as a nuisance that he’ll have to pay someone to get rid of so that he can turn that parcel into useable land.
    – if the hangar is physically attached to the house, or on the same parcel, or on an adjacent parcel that is clearly defined as being part of the whole, then you can insist on an “all or nothing” purchase or require a compensatory payment for the loss of value (see the fourth and fifth paragraphs of the Code rurale on this matter).

    Ultimately, one assumes your intention is to sell within a reasonable timeframe for the best price possible price. If you’ve got a cash buyer who’ll help you achieve that, and maybe even grant you a rent-free “transition period” for moving out because you’ve shown yourself to be amenable to common-sense arrangements and he doesn’t need the house anyway, then don’t think too hard about what some other imaginary purchaser might or might not want from the property.


    #1823996
    Hal
    Hal
    Participant
    Joined: 06 Jan 2011
    Location: Limoux, 11300 Aude.
    Total posts: 3793

    Is there a limit under which SAFER doesn’t apply? Can I give part of the land to the conservationists and then not go to SAFER?

    <hr />

    In a word no! but there are ways to interfere with them interefering with you, if you get my drift. See above – it is all there pretty well.

    One problem you have is the mayoral tie. The mother can call up SAFER any time she wants to, and the chances are – providing she does not go way over the top – SAFER will be guided by her and ‘what is good for the community’…

    What is the land used for at present? Is it rented out to this farmer perhaps?

    I am in a similar position with my house set in agricultural land and a large woodland. The land is important to me as it is a useful buffer surrounding the house. Before purchase, in order to make a better deal that SAFER could force, I approached the farmers renting the land telling them they could continue on a rent free contract and went to the Mayor, an over-keen chasse man – giving him sole rights to the woodland. SAFER was signed off, I have my land plus quite a few bottles of chardonnay and the odd haunch of sanglier is left at the door quite often!

    If you do not yet have a purchaser who might do similar moves, I urge you to talk with a notaire for his/her thoughts as the last thing you need right now is a huddle of a farmer, mayor and SAFER setting out your case. Interesting idea of giving the land to conservationists – one definitely for a notaire to advise.

    #1824000
    Annabelle’s Papa
    Annabelle’s Papa
    Participant
    Joined: 08 Sep 2012
    Location: Worcestershire & Brittany 22
    Total posts: 716

    Brilliant answer CR.

    Petefisch, if you have time on your  side, take it off the market immediately, wait a reasonable amount of time, say two months ( you can state your circumstances have changed and then changed back) , approach Safer and start from scratch, plus you might need to change Notaire, maybe in an area just outside the range of your Mayor so you can take the son temporarily out of the equation. The agricultural community will be offered some/part of the land but you could of ring fenced some of the possible building land and put on the market separately not with planning permission (unless you can get that done) but will be more valuable for speculators.

    Good Luck

    :good:


    #1824008
    Avatar
    Tricia
    Participant
    Joined: 20 Jul 2003
    Location: SW Gers
    Total posts: 6477

    “I know he will want too pay nothing for it but some of it is in the hamlet and  think they have to pay the price that ”

    I think they have to pay at least the ‘going price for the land’, or the price that your potential buyer would offer.


    Tricia

    #1824021
    Annabelle’s Papa
    Annabelle’s Papa
    Participant
    Joined: 08 Sep 2012
    Location: Worcestershire & Brittany 22
    Total posts: 716

    “I know he will want too pay nothing for it but some of it is in the hamlet and think they have to pay the price that ” I think they have to pay at least the ‘going price for the land’, or the price that your potential buyer would offer.

    <hr />

    Tricia

    You are correct but his Mother is the Mayor, I am sure it is above board ………….


    #1824037
    Avatar
    Petefisch
    Participant
    Joined: 26 Feb 2018
    Location: Aude
    Total posts: 3

    Thanks guys.

    The hangar is on a small plot about 50 yards from the house so I assume if he wants that he will have to pay for the hangar not just the land.

    The farm is currently a livestock farm, breeding cows for beef so could be minimum of 2500 sq m but if agricultural there is no limit.

    Think I need to speak to the notaire who advised on the purchase and get his advice. I may have to sell the land to the son as I will never be able to get between son, mother, mayor and SAFER.

    I can remove a couple of plots from the sale, i.e. the hangar and the main field I know he wants as if all I am getting is somewhere between 2000€ and 4000€ a hectare (total say 6-10000€) then I won’t bother and I will keep it all.

    Sod him and sod the mayor.

    Pete

     

     


    #1824049
    CelticRambler
    CelticRambler
    Participant
    Joined: 01 Apr 2008
    Location: Good question. What day is it?
    Total posts: 6004

    I may have to sell the land to the son as I will never be able to get between son, mother, mayor and SAFER.

    :wacko: There’s no maybe about it. You have put agricultural land up for sale, and the law in France gives a registered farmer first call on the purchase. The same applies to urban property in some town centres, where the maire can pre-empt all other purchasers.

    SAFER are there to guarantee that sellers don’t try to obstruct someone with a legitimate claim from exercising their right.

    “Sod him and sod the mayor” sounds like a great way to ensure that the property doesn’t sell for years and years, for reasons that you haven’t even begun to imagine.

    I’m struggling to understand what you’re trying to achieve here … :scratch:


    #1824546
    AnOther
    AnOther
    Participant
    Joined: 11 Jan 2008
    Location: W of Cahors (46)
    Total posts: 9455

    Nowadays you step into the SAFER ‘trap’ the moment you agree a sale because ALL property transactions are now automatically referred to them not just those with potential agricultural land.

    Typically they are taking 2 months to render a decision but surprise surprise you can pay €180 to have it expedited or an outrageous €1000 for a 24 hour response!

    Not that we have any land likely to be of the slightest interest to anybody but we are going through the sale process and the info is direct from the notaire.

    We declined to pay for the simple reason that our buyers are getting a mortgage and as they are nominally taking around 2 months anyway there was little or nothing to be gained.


    #1824547
    mysty2
    mysty2
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 9603

    Not every house in France is subject to SAFER.


    #1824548
    AnOther
    AnOther
    Participant
    Joined: 11 Jan 2008
    Location: W of Cahors (46)
    Total posts: 9455

    My notaire – who I trust 100% – says differently and the supporting first hand evidence is that my 2700 m2 property built on rocky ground, where even the weeds have a hard time surviving, had to be submitted to SAFER.


    #1824549
    mysty2
    mysty2
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 9603

    That’s because of the amount of land  ask your Notaire. We sold a house today that was not subject to SAFER.  Most houses in towns and cities are also except from SAFER.


Selling French Property
Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)

You cannot reply to this topic.