Viewing 5 posts - 256 through 260 (of 260 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1814958
    Avatar
    vanman
    Participant
    Joined: 16 Oct 2008
    Location: In the Cantal (15)
    Total posts: 513

    I hope no-one wants to go back to all this (from the Wikipedia page on “The Troubles”):

    “Of those killed by British security forces:

    • 187 (~51.5%) were civilians
    • 145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    • 18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    • 13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces

    Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:

    • 1080 (~52%) were members/former members of the British security forces
    • 723 (~35%) were civilians
    • 187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    • 57 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    • 11 (~0.5%) were members of the Irish security forces

    Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:

    • 878 (~85.4%) were civilians
    • 94 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
    • 41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
    • 14 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

    Thus while republican paramilitaries caused the greatest number of deaths overall, they caused fewer civilian deaths than loyalist paramilitaries, and had a lower civilian-to-combatant casualty ratio than either of the other two belligerents.”

    Those last sentences remind me a little of the ethical problem Alice had with the oysters eaten by the Walrus and the Carpenter. But they might explain why there isn’t a lot of enthusiasm in the rest of the UK for allowing the DUP’s agenda to dominate these negotiations.


    For when the One Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He writes - not that you won or lost - But where you placed the Blame

    #1815007
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    You’ll find different figures depending on where you look VM.   Your spin is a little skewed however…

    http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

    Most civilians are what they class as collateral (in the crossfire), it matters little, a life is still a life no matter what “side” you belong to.    Irrespective of what type of spin is employed, the facts still remain the same, you’ll find the same movement at the top of every list, with their campaign to blame for it.

     


    Anger is an energy !

    #1815017
    jsks
    jsks
    Participant
    Joined: 03 Sep 2010
    Location: Potatoshire, North Yorkshire and Co Cork soon?
    Total posts: 5674

    The relative merits of these figures, while sad, aren’t relevant to the future. That was the last century and I would hope that people wouldn’t use historic events to justify future animosity.

    It strikes me that if the island is to have a stable future people need to put the past away. We seem to have managed it with the Germans, Argentinians, Japanese.

    #1815042
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    The relative merits of these figures, while sad, aren’t relevant to the future. That was the last century and I would hope that people wouldn’t use historic events to justify future animosity. It strikes me that if the island is to have a stable future people need to put the past away. We seem to have managed it with the Germans, Argentinians, Japanese.

     

    Once again J………….it isn’t that simple, it wasn’t last century, it is still continuing with the dissident republican movement, thus your analogy of Germans, Argentinians, Japanese is not relevant, as the armed campaign is finished in those countries a long time ago and people have had time to accept and move on.    Additionally……..the conflicts you mention are completely different.  They were fought by regular armies in uniform, with front lines and official military strategy,  not a “hide and seek” guerilla campaign involving terrorists like N. Ireland.

    There have been no loyalist attacks on republican targets for a long time, (they tend to be more bogged down with infighting amongst their own ranks) and a will to achieve peace, partly due to DUP and UUP intervention and talks.  Again your being a tad disingenuous to the DUP, but its still the out dated perception people have of the party (Ian Paisley style).  Again I’m not a DUP voter, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread ref: the hardline push from SF since McGuinness, people have been forced into voting for them in order to carry a majority and not split the unionist votes between parties, the same can be said on the nationalist side.

    If you Google dissident republican attacks you will see its still current.  One was jailed this week, for planning to assassinate Prince Charles fgs, another appealing his conviction for murdering a prison officer last year, not to mention countless republican arms finds and the (dissident) Royal Marine from Larne who was planning attacks and assembling a bomb factory, components found by a member of the public in Carnfunnock Country Park, a place popular with children.

    I always hear this “comeback” regarding history, 400 year old battles etc………………the same can be applied to these dissidents (including SF) who continue to push for Irish unity, if that is the case and people should move on, then why can this movement not accept that N. Ireland is British and move on themselves.  It works both ways !  Only one side is still targeting and murdering.

    The simple truth about N. Ireland is………….. if the republican movement ceased their campaign, then there would be no “trouble” .


    Anger is an energy !

    • This reply was modified 08 Dec 2017 00:00 by  drift.
    #1815047
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    The unionist community in N. Ireland has accepted a lot of (hard to swallow) concessions to the nationalist parties, in the name of peace, eg: Removal of the Union flag on city hall (a bit like England demanding Scotland remove the saltire or Wales the Welsh dragon or vice versa), they have also accepted terrorists into government, a halt on protestant applicants for the PSNI, large investment in nationalist areas to name but a few.  Things are pretty much equal these days.  There has been no reciprocal response from SF.   The unionist community now feels it has conceded enough, needs to stand firm and SF start to reciprocate the lengths the unionists have gone to, to achieve a peaceful long term resolution.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/editors-viewpoint/editors-viewpoint-sinn-fein-has-a-lot-to-learn-about-respect-36194498.html

    Sinn Feins campaign slogan this year is equality, respect and integrity. :lol:

    Just a little hypocritical.


    Anger is an energy !

Brexit
Viewing 5 posts - 256 through 260 (of 260 total)

You cannot reply to this topic.