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  • #1798437
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    Tricia
    Participant
    Joined: 20 Jul 2003
    Location: SW Gers
    Total posts: 6477

    i don’t claim to be knowledgeable about this, but crystal’s post rings a bell
    i once read a book, cant remember the name, comparing the situation in the holy land, ie jews and arabs
    i thought it was an interesting comparison, though there are some differences


    Tricia

    #1798438
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    icey
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 4332

    Welcome back Drift, I love reading a knowledgeable post or 2! Thing is everybody seems to have an opinion but few have the knowledge to back them up ;-)

    <hr />

    I think this guy is quite knowledgeable ( apologies for the link being from that pathetic scummy “newspaper” The Express, I hate the Express but I have noted how much brexiters love it so I am making an exception this time to quote from it  for them.)

    “: “To say Northern Ireland barely registers in British public discourse would be a generous understatement: interest mostly hovers between ignorance and neglect, with occasional bursts of irritation or panic.
    “Even during the current political crisis, British prime minister Theresa May could not seem less interested, while the best one can say about James Brokenshire’s leadership of the recent Stormont talks is that his surname seems darkly appropriate.
    “British oversight in Northern Ireland has a rather sorry history, and a post-Brexit UK has little to offer the region.””
    and
    “A UNITED Ireland is an inevitability and Britain should start preparing for the loss of Northern Ireland, a top professor has warned.”
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/800941/brexit-united-ireland-northern-border-uk-britain

    So whose view has more credence, Dr Christopher Kissane, an Irish historian at the London School of Economics or Drift’s….


    • This reply was modified 23 Oct 2017 10:12 by  icey.
    #1798456
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    roadrat
    Participant
    Joined: 28 Oct 2005
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 3683

    Welcome back Drift, I love reading a knowledgeable post or 2! Thing is everybody seems to have an opinion but few have the knowledge to back them up ;-)

    <hr />

    I think this guy is quite knowledgeable ( apologies for the link being from that pathetic scummy “newspaper” The Express, I hate the Express but I have noted how much brexiters love it so I am making an exception this time to quote from it for them.) “: “To say Northern Ireland barely registers in British public discourse would be a generous understatement: interest mostly hovers between ignorance and neglect, with occasional bursts of irritation or panic. “Even during the current political crisis, British prime minister Theresa May could not seem less interested, while the best one can say about James Brokenshire’s leadership of the recent Stormont talks is that his surname seems darkly appropriate. “British oversight in Northern Ireland has a rather sorry history, and a post-Brexit UK has little to offer the region.”” and “A UNITED Ireland is an inevitability and Britain should start preparing for the loss of Northern Ireland, a top professor has warned.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/800941/brexit-united-ireland-northern-border-uk-britain So whose view has more credence, Dr Christopher Kissane, an Irish historian at the London School of Economics or Drift’s….

    <hr />

    Pity it’s in the express, but it’s a bit like everything Brexit related there are no good solutions, just less bad. The irony is that Brexit was the biggest shove towards reunification one could imagine, given that it was supported by the most bigoted sects who oppose it purely on principle. For any sane or reasonable individual  there is no good reason why Ireland could not be reunified just as there is no reason for the rest of the UK to punt itself off into the atlantic.


    #1798514
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    Welcome back Drift, I love reading a knowledgeable post or 2! Thing is everybody seems to have an opinion but few have the knowledge to back them up ;-)

    <hr />

    I think this guy is quite knowledgeable ( apologies for the link being from that pathetic scummy “newspaper” The Express, I hate the Express but I have noted how much brexiters love it so I am making an exception this time to quote from it for them.) “: “To say Northern Ireland barely registers in British public discourse would be a generous understatement: interest mostly hovers between ignorance and neglect, with occasional bursts of irritation or panic. “Even during the current political crisis, British prime minister Theresa May could not seem less interested, while the best one can say about James Brokenshire’s leadership of the recent Stormont talks is that his surname seems darkly appropriate. “British oversight in Northern Ireland has a rather sorry history, and a post-Brexit UK has little to offer the region.”” and “A UNITED Ireland is an inevitability and Britain should start preparing for the loss of Northern Ireland, a top professor has warned.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/800941/brexit-united-ireland-northern-border-uk-britain So whose view has more credence, Dr Christopher Kissane, an Irish historian at the London School of Economics or Drift’s….

    <hr />

     

    Ahh yes……. Dr Kissane I’ve seen him before.

    The humble opinions of an individual born in Kerry, South West Ireland, studied at Trinity College Dublin before heading to London, now lives in England and who has never hidden the fact he is an advocate for Irish unity.

    Surely he wouldn’t have an agenda, would he ?

    he’s an economist, their track record hasn’t been that great either, much like the bankers who screwed the world economy in one fell swoop.

     

    But what would I know, I only live here.


    Anger is an energy !

    #1798518
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    Welcome back Drift, I love reading a knowledgeable post or 2! Thing is everybody seems to have an opinion but few have the knowledge to back them up ;-)

    <hr />

    I think this guy is quite knowledgeable ( apologies for the link being from that pathetic scummy “newspaper” The Express, I hate the Express but I have noted how much brexiters love it so I am making an exception this time to quote from it for them.) “: “To say Northern Ireland barely registers in British public discourse would be a generous understatement: interest mostly hovers between ignorance and neglect, with occasional bursts of irritation or panic. “Even during the current political crisis, British prime minister Theresa May could not seem less interested, while the best one can say about James Brokenshire’s leadership of the recent Stormont talks is that his surname seems darkly appropriate. “British oversight in Northern Ireland has a rather sorry history, and a post-Brexit UK has little to offer the region.”” and “A UNITED Ireland is an inevitability and Britain should start preparing for the loss of Northern Ireland, a top professor has warned.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/800941/brexit-united-ireland-northern-border-uk-britain So whose view has more credence, Dr Christopher Kissane, an Irish historian at the London School of Economics or Drift’s….

    <hr />

    Pity it’s in the express, but it’s a bit like everything Brexit related there are no good solutions, just less bad. The irony is that Brexit was the biggest shove towards reunification one could imagine, given that it was supported by the most bigoted sects who oppose it purely on principle. For any sane or reasonable individual there is no good reason why Ireland could not be reunified just as there is no reason for the rest of the UK to punt itself off into the atlantic.

    <hr />

     

    I’ll just treat that, ridiculous, idiotic and factless nonsense of a post with the contempt it deserves and not even bother.


    Anger is an energy !

    #1798520
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    crystal
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Mar 2008
    Location: Vienne (86)
    Total posts: 1167

     

    For any sane or reasonable individual  there is no good reason why Ireland could not be reunified

    ….so  you think that 30 years of fear and bloodshed, with more than 3,600 mostly innocent lives lost should just be brushed under the carpet and forgotten about?

     

    #1798521
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    roadrat
    Participant
    Joined: 28 Oct 2005
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 3683

    For any sane or reasonable individual there is no good reason why Ireland could not be reunified

    ….so you think that 30 years of fear and bloodshed, with more than 3,600 mostly innocent lives lost should just be brushed under the carpet and forgotten about?

    Err yes. What would you prefer?


    #1798527
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    crystal
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Mar 2008
    Location: Vienne (86)
    Total posts: 1167

    If it were something which happened way back in the distant past, I might tend to agree, but the families of the dead, the many 1,000’s who were left with missing limbs, etc and the countless numbers left with mental scars from witnessing the aftermath of a bombing, etc make up a large percentage of the population living in Northern Ireland today. There are very few living in Northern Ireland today who’s lives were not directly affected by the troubles. Maybe in a few generation’s time …but now is not the time ….it’s too soon.

    #1798529
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    For any sane or reasonable individual there is no good reason why Ireland could not be reunified

    ….so you think that 30 years of fear and bloodshed, with more than 3,600 mostly innocent lives lost should just be brushed under the carpet and forgotten about?

    Err yes. What would you prefer?

    <hr />

     

    If only things were as simple as what goes on in your head. :scratch:


    Anger is an energy !

    #1798530
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    If it were something which happened way back in the distant past, I might tend to agree, but the families of the dead, the many 1,000’s who were left with missing limbs, etc and the countless numbers left with mental scars from witnessing the aftermath of a bombing, etc make up a large percentage of the population living in Northern Ireland today. There are very few living in Northern Ireland today who’s lives were not directly affected by the troubles. Maybe in a few generation’s time …but now is not the time ….it’s too soon.

     

    A sensible post Crystal, thankyou.  Its a refreshing change to hear there is someone on this forum with a little bit of knowledge and understanding of things outside of their own little bubble.

     

    The thing is and what people don’t realise …………..  the threat is still there….dissident republican paramilitary groups are still targeting and killing police officers, civilians, prison officers and still smuggling weapons/explosives into Ireland both north and south  Therefore it is NOT all over and confined to the history books, it is current.


    Anger is an energy !

    #1798532
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    crystal
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Mar 2008
    Location: Vienne (86)
    Total posts: 1167

    No, it’s not over and never will be, that’s why we chose to leave the toxic, hate-filled country.

    #1798533
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    lindal1000
    Participant
    Joined: 09 Jun 2011
    Location: france
    Total posts: 4844

    If it were something which happened way back in the distant past, I might tend to agree, but the families of the dead, the many 1,000’s who were left with missing limbs, etc and the countless numbers left with mental scars from witnessing the aftermath of a bombing, etc make up a large percentage of the population living in Northern Ireland today. There are very few living in Northern Ireland today who’s lives were not directly affected by the troubles. Maybe in a few generation’s time …but now is not the time ….it’s too soon.

    At some point you have to let go though and move on..or accept that it will always be a hate filled and vile place and give up on it.
    I’ve never lived there but I do have friends on all sides. My first ‘contact’ was in my teens when the Catholic youth club I went to hosted some kids from NI for a couple of weeks to give them a break from the troubles. The fact that I was not a Catholic was not a problem in England, but was certainly an anathema to the kids, who sadly had already been indoctrinated with hate. This was 40 years ago..those kids would now be in their 50s and probably for many of them they still feel the same.
    Later on I became good friends with Catholic and protestants from NI and visited several times, staying on both sides. My friends all identified as Irish, whatever side they were born. In fact one, who was born in the USA kept her American passport and identified herself as Irish/American.
    My thoughts after visiting were that it really is a beautiful place, but you can only live there if you accept sectarianism. Someone said to me ‘wouldn’t you like to live here?’. I said ‘but where could I live?’ They looked puzzled and said ‘well the Protestant side’. I said, ‘but I’m not a Protestant or a Catholic’. They looked a bit confused and said, ‘ah well..you’d just be like wee Mr Singh who runs the shop on the corner..he’s an Indian but we think of him as a Protestant’.

    A hard border between North and South will never work though..it didn’t before and it won’t again and the British Government under Jeremy Corbyn will never commit British Troops there again. In fact, to deal with the customs and immigration requirements after brexit the UK and Ireland will have to cooperate, with checks happening on all sides. It could end up being united in everything but name.


    #1798565
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    euro roamer
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    Joined: 16 May 2013
    Location: Near the Meridian
    Total posts: 250

    Why not build a nice new town somewhere in the Scottish Lowlands, it could be called Bigotstown. Then all the nasty bitter bigoted so called loyalists could be resettled. They could all spend their time stomping around ranting and raving about King Billy and Hell Fire. Maybe it could be turned into a theme park where Chinese tourists could be given a chance to wind up the population and get them to do their Orange jig. Then of course Ireland could be united and get on with being a good member of the EU. :yahoo:


    #1798577
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    If it were something which happened way back in the distant past, I might tend to agree, but the families of the dead, the many 1,000’s who were left with missing limbs, etc and the countless numbers left with mental scars from witnessing the aftermath of a bombing, etc make up a large percentage of the population living in Northern Ireland today. There are very few living in Northern Ireland today who’s lives were not directly affected by the troubles. Maybe in a few generation’s time …but now is not the time ….it’s too soon.

    At some point you have to let go though and move on..or accept that it will always be a hate filled and vile place and give up on it. I’ve never lived there but I do have friends on all sides. My first ‘contact’ was in my teens when the Catholic youth club I went to hosted some kids from NI for a couple of weeks to give them a break from the troubles. The fact that I was not a Catholic was not a problem in England, but was certainly an anathema to the kids, who sadly had already been indoctrinated with hate. This was 40 years ago..those kids would now be in their 50s and probably for many of them they still feel the same. Later on I became good friends with Catholic and protestants from NI and visited several times, staying on both sides. My friends all identified as Irish, whatever side they were born. In fact one, who was born in the USA kept her American passport and identified herself as Irish/American. My thoughts after visiting were that it really is a beautiful place, but you can only live there if you accept sectarianism. Someone said to me ‘wouldn’t you like to live here?’. I said ‘but where could I live?’ They looked puzzled and said ‘well the Protestant side’. I said, ‘but I’m not a Protestant or a Catholic’. They looked a bit confused and said, ‘ah well..you’d just be like wee Mr Singh who runs the shop on the corner..he’s an Indian but we think of him as a Protestant’. A hard border between North and South will never work though..it didn’t before and it won’t again and the British Government under Jeremy Corbyn will never commit British Troops there again. In fact, to deal with the customs and immigration requirements after brexit the UK and Ireland will have to cooperate, with checks happening on all sides. It could end up being united in everything but name.

    <hr />

     

    There are quite a few things don’t ring true in this piece of fiction lindal, sorry.


    Anger is an energy !

    #1798580
    drift
    drift
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Aug 2007
    Location: Northern Ireland With Regular France Trips.
    Total posts: 578

    For what its worth to those on here, Northern Ireland has transformed in the last 20 years.

    The “sides” lindal talks bout are only in working class/housing estate areas on the outskirts were there is an obvious divide or side.  The rest are just towns and villages in certain area’s were it will be one side or the other but predominantly both sides living together quite content.

    N. Ireland has recieved a lot of investment in Software development, accounting and banking, Airbus has just bought a majority stake in Bombardier, tourism is at huge levels, with liners arriving daily and the hospitality trade is thriving,.   Game of Thrones/Sons Of Anarchy has helped this and brought in many more film/production companies and Belfast & Antrim Coast has been voted Lonely Planets #1 place to visit in 2018.

    http://www.itv.com/news/utv/2017-10-24/belfast-and-causeway-coast-named-no1-region-in-the-world-to-visit-in-2018/

    The information is out there just do the research, I don’t care if you believe me or not.

     

    The integrated schooling system is what everyone wants here, although SF keep blocking the bill with the default response “catholic parents can decide for themselves what school they want to send their children to”.


    Anger is an energy !

    • This reply was modified 24 Oct 2017 17:01 by  drift.
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