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  • #1659330
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    With the publication of the amendement 5 to the NF C 15-100 electrical code June 30 this year these regs will go in active service late December. It is difficult to write a summary, even those who are very close to these changes, Hager, Schneider and Legrand take their time. Legrand promises us an updated version of their introduction to the code somewhere in November.  Just to highlight some of these changes a few words about sockets, interrupteurs différentiel, the bathroom and wiring size.

    Sockets (16 A 2P+T),  sleeping room: 3. Living room: 1 per 4 m².  Surface more than 28 m² a minimum of 7. Kitchen: 6, 4 of them above the countertop. Interrupteurs différentiel (30 mA): a minimum of two. With a maximum of 8 circuits per ID. Circuits spécialisés: a minimum of 4. One for  the cooker (cuisinière) 32 A single-phase or 20 A three-phase.Three others for: washing machine, dish washer, dryer, oven etc. How many sockets per circuit? 8 with 1.5 mm² wiring and 12 with 2.5mm² wiring. Special case, the kitchen: the 6 sockets (2.5 mm²) should have their own circuit. More sockets in the kitchen: can be fed from another socket circuit outside the kitchen. Bathroom: many changes, see these texts and pictures in their version originale. Distribution board and wiring size: board not close to meter and meter close to board.

    The full text is made available by the AFNOR organisation. You van buy it, or have a look at it in an “only read” mode. See procedure as outlined here.

     

     


    RA

    #1659341
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    vienne
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Oct 2005
    Location: Depth 16
    Total posts: 660

    Is a double socket classed as one or two?


    #1659344
    badger
    badger
    Participant
    Joined: 04 Dec 2008
    Location: Near Vire (14)
    Total posts: 1408

    This is not an exhaustive article about the changes but I’ve just edited some stuff hosted elsewhere, so here is just the socket number bit.

    Amendment 5 to the French domestic wiring regulations makes major changes/simplications to the way the number of sockets per circuit is calculated. This change comes into effect for all works subject to a Permis de Constuire deposited on or after 27/11/2015 & any works that are accepted (via a signed devis/quote) on or after that date. What follows is an updated version of my previously published information on this subject.

    As French socket circuits don’t use the UK ring main principle (which allows the quite large rating of 32 amps) the number of outlets allowed on any one circuit is limited. There are two sizes of wiring allowed for use with sockets, which creates another level of restriction. Under NF C 15-100 A5 (effective from 27/11/2015) all physical socket outlets are counted when applying the numbers set out below. There is no longer the allowance to count true double outlets as single sockets, as was the case before.

    Circuit wired in 1.5mm² conductors: maximum number of sockets = 8.
    Protection must be via a maximum 16 amp rated MCB (disjoncteur divisionnaire) only – no fuses are allowed.

    Circuit wired in 2.5mm² conductors: maximum number of sockets = 12.
    Protection can be via a maximum 20 amp rated MCB (disjoncteur) or fuse of 16 amps. My personal advice is that one should only use a 16A MCB/disjoncteur.

    With the advent of A5 it is now very simple to calculate the maximum number of outlets allowed. For example if you have a 2.5mm² circuit with 6 double sockets on it you can’t add any more as 6 x 2 = 12. To further clarify, a 1.5mm² circuit that has 2 doubles & 3 singles on it could only have 1 extra single added to it as (2 x 2) +( 3 x 1) = 7.

    As no ring is involved when wiring a French socket circuit there is no need to string one socket after another in a “daisy chain” fashion. In other words, if it was physically convenient you could take the circuit from your consumer unit, daisy chain through two sockets, then into a junction box where another 3 outlets are wired out as individual runs in a star, or radial format. Just observe the rules about junction boxes, but that’s a subject for another rambling…..


    Jonathan Badger - St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    • This reply was modified 11 Oct 2015 18:45 by  badger.
    #1659348
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    vienne
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Oct 2005
    Location: Depth 16
    Total posts: 660

    That’s good.

    Can I push my luck and ask what the junction box rules are because in some areas I have run the cable to a JB then to the socket the from the JB to the nest JB etc.

    I tried daisy chaining but found much easier as I don’t have particularly strong fingers.


    #1659351
    badger
    badger
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    Joined: 04 Dec 2008
    Location: Near Vire (14)
    Total posts: 1408

    ……in some areas I have run the cable to a JB then to the socket the from the JB to the nest JB etc.

    <hr />

    There’s no reason why you shouldn’t do that.


    Jonathan Badger - St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    #1659353
    Avatar
    vienne
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Oct 2005
    Location: Depth 16
    Total posts: 660

    Thanks

     


    #1662403
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    What took them so long? Promotelec finally published a summary of the A5 changes to the French electrical code.

    Anything new about the communication network: in or out? No, somewhere next year, the competent authorities in Paris are still busy with their homework. To quote Promotelec: ” En parallèle, les pouvoirs publics travaillent à une nouvelle architecture réglementaire visant à préciser les éléments permettant de répondre aux politiques publiques de sécurité et de déploiement du très haut débit. Les arrêtés devraient être publiés en 2016 pour préciser notamment les éléments relatifs aux réseaux et tableaux de communication à installer obligatoirement dans les logements neufs.


    RA

    #1662419
    tomdenne
    tomdenne
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Oct 2008
    Location: 58 La Nièvre
    Total posts: 4459

    Just observe the rules about junction boxes, but that’s a subject for another rambling

    :grin: No rambling at all; very concise and instructive; thanks badger.

    Tom


    Tom

    #1668738
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    Today November 27 the start of the new Amendement 5 regs. Legrand published this morning a summary and something for easier reading. See also this Promotelec information, this earlier checklist and updates by Schneider and Hager.


    RA

    #1668746
    Avatar
    vienne
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Oct 2005
    Location: Depth 16
    Total posts: 660

    I’ve nearly completed my rewiring of an old house and I built my own GTL in a recess. Will I get away with that when the inspector comes round?


    #1668966
    Avatar
    stevegsm
    Participant
    Joined: 28 Jul 2015
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 20

    It’s probably a daft question but,,

     

    Our hot water cylinder (electrical immersion heater) is wired directly into the consumer board so is powered on constantly.

    Since it’s a holiday home I’d like to be able to put this on either a timer or (ideally) an internet controlled relay switch.

    My question is:

    Am I allowed (legally) to fit anything into my consumer unit?

    It’s something I can do although I’m not “qualified” so what can I legally do?

    Any help/advice would be appreciated.


    #1669044
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
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    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    The forum software is not behaving as it should, so another try:

     

     

    Vienne, Consuel will ask you if you have followed the old NF C 15-100 A1 —>A4 regs (for earlier building permits) or the new Amendement 5. See the information on Consuel’s website and what this French Federation mentions. The GTL dimensions old style by  the ERDF and only minor changes in the new A5 regs, see pages 26-30 in Hager’s update of today. Introduction of the ETEL concept, until now described as the virtual reserved space for the GTL functions. About the the three usual suspects on this French market: let’s not forget to mention Schneider’s update.

    Steve, don’t you worry about the legal issues. Just have a look at the annual reports of the Consuel and you will see that many attestations go to non – professionals.  Their last statistics you’ll find on page 22 of their 2014 report. As long as you know what you are doing almost everything in the consumer unit is your territory. The ERDF is responsible for the meter and the disjoncteur de branchement (DB). From the output of this DB it is domaine privé. For the standard wiring of your chauffe-eau see this info.

    Going away for some time? Switch off the MCB. Wintertime? Empty the hot water cylinder


    RA

    #1669121
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    peterdanton
    Participant
    Joined: 09 Mar 2005
    Location: Pyrénées-Orientales
    Total posts: 767

    Just wanted to thank all the knowledgeable experts above who give their time and effort to post this information.  I don’t often get involved with electrical issues, other than calling a professional, but very useful information to have.  Best regards – P-DdeR.


    Peter-Danton de ROUFFIGNAC MA LLM http://www.francemedproperty.blogspot.com

    #1669140
    Avatar
    mikej
    Participant
    Joined: 21 Jun 2011
    Location: Dordogne sometimes and Kent the rest
    Total posts: 5287

    It’s probably a daft question but,,

    Our hot water cylinder (electrical immersion heater) is wired directly into the consumer board so is powered on constantly.

    Since it’s a holiday home I’d like to be able to put this on either a timer or (ideally) an internet controlled relay switch.

    My question is:

    Am I allowed (legally) to fit anything into my consumer unit?

    It’s something I can do although I’m not “qualified” so what can I legally do?

    Any help/advice would be appreciated.

    <hr>

    Steve

    I fitted one of these: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOELEC7.html set to five hours a night, two of us and a 200L cylinder, you can fit it anywhere between the consumer unit and the immersion in a convenient position to suit you, but normally its close to the DWH cylinder.

    Mike


    WFIPFLL

    #1669146
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    stevegsm
    Participant
    Joined: 28 Jul 2015
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 20

    Hi Mike,

    Many thanks, i’ve had something similar at a previous house.

    I’d not even thought of Horstman, I’ll call them to see if they’ve got anything that can contrl this via an Iphone app.

    Cheers!


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