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  • #1726610
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    bricksticker
    Participant
    Joined: 04 Mar 2008
    Location: sussex
    Total posts: 272

    cardi have you spoken to 17 million out voters to get their views or is this just your imagination running wild.

     


    bricksticker

    #1726611
    dart16
    dart16
    Participant
    Joined: 19 Sep 2011
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 716

    Here’s a nice bloke offering his services…nice little two year earner assuming he is not going to be detained elsewhere…. :whistle:

    Gizza Job


    #1726614
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    bricksticker
    Participant
    Joined: 04 Mar 2008
    Location: sussex
    Total posts: 272

    The majority of  eastern europeans i see are doing low paid jobs (i know a polish school teacher selling ice creams). If their earnings are  e.g £14500  and they have a couple of kids they would be eligible to claim working tax credit and  child tax credit of £ 580.00 pounds per month( nearly £7000) . These low paid jobs used to be filled by the youngsters with no work experience but are being take as i say by skilled migrant labour and the gov tops up their wages  are you surprised the people have voted in protest .


    bricksticker

    #1726617
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    Tricia
    Participant
    Joined: 20 Jul 2003
    Location: SW Gers
    Total posts: 6477

    OK sorry pommehomme – you’re talking about how to wriggle out AFTER Article 50 is triggered?


    Tricia

    #1726624
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    pommehomme
    Participant
    Joined: 03 Jan 2010
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 888

    No, Tricia, I’m talking about a view having been expressed, by those giving expert evidence to a House of Lords committee, that the UK can, after triggering the Art. 50 withdrawal procedure, resile from that before the conclusion of negotiations as to the terms of withdrawal. I am not a constitutional law expert and therefore I express no view as to whether or not that is so. My view is that it would surprise me greatly if the EU shared the view expressed by those expert witnesses. I suspect that the EU position would be that triggering Art. 50 is rather like going through a turnstile that only rotates one way. You can go through it, but you can’t come back!


    #1726634
    dantheman
    dantheman
    Participant
    Joined: 16 Nov 2014
    Location: France
    Total posts: 2283

    No, Tricia, I’m talking about a view having been expressed, by those giving expert evidence to a House of Lords committee, that the UK can, after triggering the Art. 50 withdrawal procedure, resile from that before the conclusion of negotiations as to the terms of withdrawal. I am not a constitutional law expert and therefore I express no view as to whether or not that is so. My view is that it would surprise me greatly if the EU shared the view expressed by those expert witnesses. I suspect that the EU position would be that triggering Art. 50 is rather like going through a turnstile that only rotates one way. You can go through it, but you can’t come back!

    <hr />

    Who do you think is going to win that bun fight?


    #1726648
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    pommehomme
    Participant
    Joined: 03 Jan 2010
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 888

    The side that holds all the trump cards in its hand – and that’s not the side the flushed most of its cards down the toilet last week! :grin:


    #1726654
    cardi
    cardi
    Participant
    Joined: 16 Feb 2007
    Location: West Wales, Villefagnan 16 and Niteroi, RJ.
    Total posts: 1846

    cardi have you spoken to 17 million out voters to get their views or is this just your imagination running wild.

    <hr />

    bricksticker

     

    So you think the 17 million decided that they wanted to leave because they disagreed with decisions of the European Court or weren’t happy with the EU Directive on Cross Border Healthcare.

     

     


    Criminals are never very amusing. It's because they're failures. Those who make real money aren't counted as criminals. This is a class distinction, not an ethical problem. Orson Welles

    #1726656
    normally
    normally
    Blocked
    Joined: 19 Feb 2015
    Location: Wherever I lay ma bunnet.
    Total posts: 2565

    If anyone believes that immigration and xenophobia were not the overriding issues that decided whether we were in or out let me introduce you to my good friend Prince Ngor of Nigeria. He can make you very, very rich.<!–more–>


    😊 Ally. Keeping his insults to within tolerable standards since 2004.

    #1726668
    loopski
    loopski
    Blocked
    Joined: 23 Jan 2013
    Location: deux sèvres
    Total posts: 9778

    <p abp=”717″>No, Tricia, I’m talking about a view having been expressed, <em abp=”718″>by those giving expert evidence to a House of Lords committee, that the UK can, after triggering the Art. 50 withdrawal procedure, resile from that before the conclusion of negotiations as to the terms of withdrawal. I am not a constitutional law expert and therefore I express no view as to whether or not that is so. My view is that it would surprise me greatly if the EU shared the view expressed by those expert witnesses. I suspect that the EU position would be that triggering Art. 50 is rather like going through a turnstile that only rotates one way. You can go through it, but you can’t come back!

    <p abp=”720″><hr />

    <p abp=”721″>Who do you think is going to win that bun fight?

    <hr abp=”723″>

    Not sure with so many experts on hand. :lol:
    Article 50…is that something to do with a European Treaty?
    Does the ECJ have anything to do with judgments European Laws and European Treaties?
    So many questions ! I’ll have to go to the privy at the bottom of the garden and cogitate philosophically.


    I would lie on top of the stairs and smell the cigar smoke of Castro.

    #1726669
    Grumpy Yorkie
    Grumpy Yorkie
    Participant
    Joined: 30 Jan 2008
    Location: Villeréal, Lot et Garonne
    Total posts: 6782

    <p abp=”822″>cardi have you spoken to 17 million out voters to get their views or is this just your imagination running wild.

    <p abp=”824″><hr />

    <p abp=”825″>bricksticker

    <p abp=”826″>

    <p abp=”827″>So you think the 17 million decided that they wanted to leave because they disagreed with decisions of the European Court or weren’t happy with the EU Directive on Cross Border Healthcare.

    <p abp=”828″>

    <p abp=”829″>

    <hr abp=”831″>
    <p abp=”832″>Criminals are never very amusing. It’s because they’re failures. Those who make real money aren’t counted as criminals. This is a class distinction, not an ethical problem. Orson Welles

    Some probably did, others may have done, None of us know.

    I voted out not because I come from the great unwashed and fear immigrants, but because I felt it was the right thing to do.

    I voted with my conscience and not my wallet. How many others can say the same?

    The EU was moving towards federalism and will continue to do so unless and until Juncker and his tax-dodging cronies are given the boot, jack or otherwise. Continuing expansion was weakening the project. It was running out of money. How much have we heard about the Greek loans which were approved again 2 months ago?

    And how can such an enviable project not have it’s accounts signed off since 1995? :shock:

    Belay that ….. they have been signed off since 2007 but …… the Court of Auditors did point out that some of the funds – 4.4% of the total in 2014 – were not used in accordance with the EU rules. But it stressed that this “is not a measure of fraud, inefficiency or waste”, but money that: “should not have been paid out because it was not used in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations”.

    You couldn’t make it up.

    Except they have, and continue to do so. Corrupt and unfit for purpose.

    Or I could say ……. it’s the immigrants, innit. But it simply isn’t.

    S.


    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a '54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ................... bloody grand!

    #1726670
    normally
    normally
    Blocked
    Joined: 19 Feb 2015
    Location: Wherever I lay ma bunnet.
    Total posts: 2565

    I’m old enough to remember when Scottish Nationalists were inward looking separatists . . . alledgedly.

    Funnily enough so is my 6 year old grandson. Not an inward looking separatist you understand but . . .


    😊 Ally. Keeping his insults to within tolerable standards since 2004.

    #1726671
    Avatar
    pommehomme
    Participant
    Joined: 03 Jan 2010
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 888

    And next will we hear that Westminster is squeaky clean, its MPs and Lords a paragon of virtue? But when democracy has devolved down to the Independent Republic of Slough and its ilk, all will be fine and dandy. But then even the Italians, remembering their pre-unification days, will be laughing at the UK!


    #1726672
    dantheman
    dantheman
    Participant
    Joined: 16 Nov 2014
    Location: France
    Total posts: 2283

    <p abp=”822″>cardi have you spoken to 17 million out voters to get their views or is this just your imagination running wild.

    <p abp=”824″><hr /> <p abp=”825″>bricksticker

    <p abp=”826″> <p abp=”827″>So you think the 17 million decided that they wanted to leave because they disagreed with decisions of the European Court or weren’t happy with the EU Directive on Cross Border Healthcare. <p abp=”828″> <p abp=”829″>

    <hr abp=”831″> <p abp=”832″>Criminals are never very amusing. It’s because they’re failures. Those who make real money aren’t counted as criminals. This is a class distinction, not an ethical problem. Orson Welles

    Some probably did, others may have done, None of us know. I voted out not because I come from the great unwashed and fear immigrants, but because I felt it was the right thing to do. I voted with my conscience and not my wallet. How many others can say the same? The EU was moving towards federalism and will continue to do so unless and until Juncker and his tax-dodging cronies are given the boot, jack or otherwise. Continuing expansion was weakening the project. It was running out of money. How much have we heard about the Greek loans which were approved again 2 months ago? And how can such an enviable project not have it’s accounts signed off since 1995? :shock: Belay that ….. they have been signed off since 2007 but …… the Court of Auditors did point out that some of the funds – 4.4% of the total in 2014 – were not used in accordance with the EU rules. But it stressed that this “is not a measure of fraud, inefficiency or waste”, but money that: “should not have been paid out because it was not used in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations”. You couldn’t make it up. Except they have, and continue to do so. Corrupt and unfit for purpose. Or I could say ……. it’s the immigrants, innit. But it simply isn’t. S.

    <hr />

    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    As you said ‘you couldn’t make it up’ – then why did you?

    As soon as I see nonsense about audits and tax dodging cronies I just start to yawn.

    If you voted leave on stuff like that then I worry about your judgement.


    #1726674
    Avatar
    icey
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Jul 2012
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 4332

    Some probably did, others may have done, None of us know. I voted out not because I come from the great unwashed and fear immigrants, but because I felt it was the right thing to do. I voted with my conscience and not my wallet. How many others can say the same? The EU was moving towards federalism and will continue to do so unless and until Juncker and his tax-dodging cronies are given the boot, jack or otherwise. Continuing expansion was weakening the project. It was running out of money. How much have we heard about the Greek loans which were approved again 2 months ago? And how can such an enviable project not have it’s accounts signed off since 1995? :shock: Belay that ….. they have been signed off since 2007 but …… the Court of Auditors did point out that some of the funds – 4.4% of the total in 2014 – were not used in accordance with the EU rules. But it stressed that this “is not a measure of fraud, inefficiency or waste”, but money that: “should not have been paid out because it was not used in accordance with the applicable rules and regulations”. You couldn’t make it up. Except they have, and continue to do so. Corrupt and unfit for purpose. Or I could say ……. it’s the immigrants, innit. But it simply isn’t. S.

    <hr />

    Flat cap, whippet, Panda, V8 Jaguar, V12 Mercedes and a ’54 Sunbeam Talbot 90 called Josephine (obviously) ………………. bloody grand!

    GrumpyYorkie, reading your post has again made my heart heavy when I had only just smiled for the first time today. I have 2 emails from friends that I received days ago that I have not yet answered because I know how they voted and my sadness is just too great to reply to them just now. I could repeat all that I said to them before the vote but it is late and the list is long with all the reasons I gave them as to why they should not turn their back on the EU so forgive me for copying someone else’s work below. Yes, changes are needed to the EU but it does not deserve to be destroyed because of the likes of Murdoch, Johnson or Farage. I believe those changes would have come/will come.

    “What did the EEC/EU ever do for us? Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade; structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline; clean beaches and rivers; cleaner air; lead free petrol; restrictions on landfill dumping; a recycling culture; cheaper mobile charges; cheaper air travel; improved consumer protection and food labelling; a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives; better product safety; single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance; break up of monopolies; Europe-wide patent and copyright protection; no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market; price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone; freedom to travel, live and work across Europe; funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad; access to European health services; labour protection and enhanced social welfare; smoke-free workplaces; equal pay legislation; holiday entitlement; the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime; strongest wildlife protection in the world; improved animal welfare in food production; EU-funded research and industrial collaboration; EU representation in international forums; bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO; EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty; European arrest warrant; cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence; European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa; support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond; investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

    All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed. It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980. Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multipolar global future.
    <span style=”font-family: Thread-000006b4-Id-00000052;”>Simon Sweeney
    Lecturer in international political economy, University of York</span>

     

     


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