Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #807500

    frankncarmen
    Participant
    Joined: 14 Jan 2009
    Location: 18
    Total posts: 18

    If you really want to future proof you might do well to install fibre optic cables and just leave a coil behind the rj45 box until sensible priced boxes are widely available. It will making running 100 Gigabit HiRes 3d television around the house a doddle. All of the different 3D TV standards now fighting it out will use the same cable. It is not far off, mind you.

    ADSL was introduced in 1863 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/ADSL and is really feeling old now. How long before us poor rurals get Gbit to the door :shock:


    #807501

    sparkyenfrance
    Participant
    Joined: 22 Sep 2010
    Location: medillac 16210
    Total posts: 1

    After reading many queries on electrical installations. I may be able to help (Kingfisher – anyway).
    If you have an up and running supply and are renovating a property – it does not matter if the main incoming supply needs upgrading to a higher Kw – or, if the main board is out of date – this will be changed by EDF free of charge (if it remains in the same position).
    The consuel only get involved if the installation is a new build – or the supply has been removed for some length of time.

    the specifics fot the consuel are not negotiable! I have even been called to a house where the englishman renovated his property and decided on his three phase supply – did not require a fuseboard.

    Use qualified people, it will save your life!. Advice is always free and from one who does not take risks..


    #807502

    dangerousgeoff
    Participant
    Joined: 10 Oct 2010
    Location: N/A
    Total posts: 5

    So can cat5e be used to distribute satellite tv around your house using rj45 sockets? Which cores of the cat5e would be used for what when converting to a sat connector?


    #807503
    AnOther
    AnOther
    Participant
    Joined: 11 Jan 2008
    Location: W of Cahors (46)
    Total posts: 9455

    You cannot distribute Sat TV on Cat5 nor convert RJ45 to any type of Sat tv conector !

    Cat5 is for ethernet connections between computers and routers etc. for Sat TV you need coax.


    #807504
    badger
    badger
    Participant
    Joined: 04 Dec 2008
    Location: Near Vire (14)
    Total posts: 1408

    @another wrote:

    You cannot distribute Sat TV on Cat5 nor convert RJ45 to any type of Sat tv conector !

    Cat5 is for ethernet connections between computers and routers etc. for Sat TV you need coax.

    This is not entirely correct. In a Grade 3 installation RJ45 outlets are wired with the correct grade of cable so that they can be used for terrestrial TV frequencies (screened to carry up to 900Mhz). An adaptation of this grade (i.e. even better screened cable) allows the same outlets to be used for satellite signals (up to 2150Mhz) as well.
    TV signals are carried on pins 7 & 8 of an RJ45 connector & leads that convert RJ45 to coax/F-plug are readily available. Legrand ref. 516 92 is one such.


    Jonathan Badger - St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    #807505

    lovelyal
    Member
    Joined: 19 Oct 2010
    Location: Charente Maritime 17
    Total posts: 8

    I’ve got a very useful and thorough book on the subject (in French, mind) but lots of diagrams.

    L’installation Electrique by Thierry Gallauziaux & David Fedullo from the ‘Comme Un Pro!’ series. You can order it on Amazon.fr


    #807506
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    Together with earlier posts this thread might be helpful for those wrestling with the technical details and what the French electrical code has to say about the domestic communication network. Several links with circuit diagrams. About the traditional French T-plug and its wiring: this illustration explains it all. More information on the website goctruc, here and in this FT document. The special pin assignment of the prise murale RJ-45 in the French domestic communication network has been described in this paper by Schneider. Be careful, don’t use standard ethernet cable (patch cable) in such a French network to connect your desktop pc or laptop, could be dangerous for them.

    And don’t forget to removea capacitor in your prise téléphonique, a relic of the good old days of simple communication technologies, and in another century used by France Télécom technicians to test the quality of your landline. There are now other testing methods, and the client has also some tools these days, including those embedded in every adsl modem. And can get an indication of line length and corresponding maximum download speeds and signal attenuation, using FT’s database with one of the many so called éligibilité tests on websites as dslvalley, degrouptest and ariase: type your phone number, and you’ll get some details about your cabling to the local telephone exchange (NRA). The download speeds mentioned are calculated, not measured. In case of doubt ask FT/Orange for some real testing, to see if your line qualifies for an adsl connection.

    Back to this capacitor, this old three legged version (trois pattes) is today a guarantee for adsl signal quality degradation. Or hardly any signal at all, and no internet. The newer version – two legs – can be considered as being quite harmless. In this so called RC module (“module d’essais“) a capacitor of 2.2 uF in series with a resistor of 20 kOhms, to terminate the FT telephone line. To make it possible for the FT technicians to test your (better: their) line, isolating “la boucle locale” from the equipment inside your house. The infamous older version has this third connection wire to the outside world. Acting inside yourprise téléphonique old style with the connected wiring as an antenna, pickung up a lot of spurious noise. With the low frequency bandwidth of voice signals (3 kHz) and the associated rather high signal levels not any problem. But such a noise injection can override your complex and fragile high frequency adsl signal. Sometimes weak, depending on your distance to the local telephone exchange and the layout and the amount of wiring connected côté client to these two FT copper wires. Helpdesks are unaware of these simple electronic facts of life, and after a year of paying for hardly any connection at all, someone picked up the phone and asked me to come over. His provider tried to convince him that signing in to a more expensive high speed internet subscription would solve his problems. After ten minutes, removing this infamous capacitor, he was online with a speed slightly higher than his internet starter abonnement.

    Signal loss also, very old wiring, because sometimes there are some fuses and probably a corroded terminal block at the entrypoint.Remove it. Final remark: when connecting a second or third phone to the classical French daisy chained wiring, please use additional T-plugs with built inadsl filter to not disturb your adsl signal too much. But additional filters are not good for your adsl signal level: the result is the same as turning down the volume control of your hifi amplifier. Better use an adsl filter up front – filtre maître – like the rest of the world, keeping adsl signal and phone signal apart. Every extra bit of signal level should be welcomed. A good adsl filter can make the difference between a reliable fast internet connection and something comparable with speeds of the analogue times. And getting rid of every contact resistance, old wiring etc. helps also. Use twisted pair cabling, e.g. one Ethernet pair. Don’t forget to check the condition of the FT wiring outside, sometimes you can spot potential problems, a broken connection box (PC=Point de Concentration) letting the rain in. Or farmers using the telephone line as support for their own wiring (electric fence) and in summertime damaging cables with their lorries with loads of straw. And for those who said goodbye to the old reliable POTS landline: no adsl filter needed anymore. But it doesn’t harm either: it filters away possible low frequency noise.

    Internet and wiring, one small step sidewards to a homeplug network. In a single-phase installation électrique it is easy, but with three-phase it can be difficult. That is where coupleurs de phases come to the rescue. This is one of Legrand, please take note of the three capacitors inside this module, and this is a low cost version.

    And if nothing works, loss of sync when you are at the end of the line, about 6 km (see graph) an update of the modem firmware sometimes helps. Or just try a different modem. The producers use different chipsets inside, and some do a better job than others in a low signal level / high noise environment. Remember: the adsl signal is a fragile, complex high frequency signal, with frequency components well above one Gigahertz. It’s a little miracle that two simple telephone wires are capable of bringing fast internet to our doorsteps.

    Perhaps useful with other information on this forum as a building block for a revamped sticky item. Volunteers step forward please.

    Robert


    RA

    #807507

    tonyv
    Participant
    Joined: 27 Apr 2009
    Location: 09 - Ariêge and MK18 - Buckingham
    Total posts: 43

    This is a very useful thread, especially the articles by RobertArthur.

    In my case, I have an incoming underground telephone line from the pole in twin flex. this leads to a chocolate block, outdoors, no other protection. the cable then comes indoors, lots of cores, but only 2 used, leading to 2 T connectors in series.

    Everything is in the wrong place, so I want to re-do this. I’m proposing to replace the chocolate block with a prober junction box, then run a cat-5 cable to a 8P8C connector (centre 2 pins), and from there a patch cable onto a RJ45 patch panel, with distribution around the house. I shall also install a master ADSL filter, and place my LiveBox nearby, patched in to the patch panel.

    Question 1: anyone see any pitfalls in this scheme?

    Question 2: do I need to retain any of the T connectors in the circuit?

    Thanks for any advice,
    Cheers, Tony


    Cheers, Tony

    #807508
    robertarthur
    robertarthur
    Participant
    Joined: 29 Nov 2010
    Location: Nièvre (58)
    Total posts: 2157

    Tony:

    Q1: this proper junction box inside your house, the entry point of the two FT copperwires, should be an official DTI = point de livraison des opérateurs. It’s the output of this DTI where your responsibilty of the wiring starts, but I suppose FT will not send in the marines if someone replaces a old domino. For the rest of the wiring, as long as you don’t need an attestation of Consuel, you have a lot of freedom. Although it would be wise to follow, as much as possible, the layout of the NFC 15-100 electrical code. See the several links for diagrams, or the Hager introduction.

    Q2: the first of January 2008 the old T connector has been promoted to the museum league, and for new builds and total renovations you have to do everything following the French electrical code, using RJ45. Probably we will see still a lot of T connectors around in 2080, part of la patrimoine française, but when rewiring everything, please use the RJ45 stuff and good quality ethernet cable (shielded if possible).

    Robert


    RA

    #807509

    tonyv
    Participant
    Joined: 27 Apr 2009
    Location: 09 - Ariêge and MK18 - Buckingham
    Total posts: 43

    Thanks for that, Robert; the Hager document is especially useful.


    Cheers, Tony

    #807510

    happy1
    Participant
    Joined: 10 May 2009
    Location: in Creuse but prefers Indre
    Total posts: 465

    @martin4roberts wrote:

    1 Electricians don’t know data networks so will install the RJ45 sockets and then put telephone grade cable on them

    Blokes like you really get my goat (unfortunately you are not the only one). You make blanket statements without knowing what you are saying. I am a qualified electrician of over 30 years in UK and France and am conversant in all aspects of comms wiring including fibre.
    If you have had a bad experience then say so, don’t slay the rest just because you were unlucky. Advise people to check by all means but don’t put us all in the same boat [-X .

    I do not use forums as a rule because there are a load of people who “know a little and say a lot” and I have been shot down before for giving advice (being told I don’t know what I’m talking about by people like yourself) but could not resist responding to this one.

    Rant over

    There is good advice in this thread, I just hope that the OP has the sense to disregard the rest.

    G


    #807511

    ziggymole
    Participant
    Joined: 22 Sep 2012
    Location: Wales UK / Dept 53
    Total posts: 163

    Ok, I’ve read through the whole post – haven’t understood more that a few words of it.

    Questions.
    What if you don’t want a telephone connection?
    I’m seriously considering NOT having TV or satelite at all just a screen and a blu ray player, what then?

    The first house we’re renovating is around 8metres square, will only have two rooms, 1 up 1 down, and definately won’t need all the techy crap. Just lights and power sockets.

    Can we do this?

    Ziggy


    #807512
    badger
    badger
    Participant
    Joined: 04 Dec 2008
    Location: Near Vire (14)
    Total posts: 1408

    @ziggymole wrote:

    What if you don’t want a telephone connection?
    I’m seriously considering NOT having TV or satelite at all just a screen and a blu ray player, what then?

    The first house we’re renovating is around 8metres square, will only have two rooms, 1 up 1 down, and definately won’t need all the techy crap. Just lights and power sockets.

    Can we do this?

    Ziggy

    If you are having a place wired to comply to the normes then you do need “all the techy crap”, otherwise anyone who claims to be wiring to the regulations is telling porkies. However, if that is not the case, or you are doing it yourself, then it’s your call.
    Personally I advise as much future proofing as possible, having seen many people having to spend time & money to install the stuff that could have been very easily done as part of the initial wiring. A middle way is to install all the empty 25mm gaines so that you can pull in comms cabling later (having measured & recorded where they all end up behind the plasterboard first of course……).

    If you require an attestation de conformité from CONSUEL they will expect to see a “coffret de communciation” at the GTL as an absolute minimum.


    Jonathan Badger - St Germain de Tallevende 14500 http://www.badgerlx.fr

    #1582756

    Chanceux
    Participant
    Joined: 17 Mar 2010
    Location: Picardie
    Total posts: 13130

    “If you require an attestation de conformité from CONSUEL they will expect to see a “coffret de communciation” at the GTL as an absolute minimum”.

    I have got this down to the very minimum now for my apartments which dont have phone lines (although a cable is run to the FT box) or ethernet connections.

    I dont even have a GTL as such but the tableau and disjoncteurs mounted on a stud wall which has the required width, all the gaines running behind in the void.

    My coffret de comms consists of a 150 * 150 flush mounted boîte de dérivation combles with empty gaines running between it and the locations of the required RJ45 points, it also contains the incoming TV coax which is connected to the outgoing one to the TV.

    Total cost a few Euros, I have known people been rushed €1300 plus for a coffret de comms plus installation cost.


    #1658503

    vienne
    Participant
    Joined: 15 Oct 2005
    Location: Depth 16
    Total posts: 660

    Does the norme still insist on all these cable runs for RJ45 and telephones when most is now Wifi and rarely would you plug in more than one phone these days?


Internet & IT, Phones
Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)

You cannot reply to this topic.